What do you think about the death penalty

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I would agree that sometimes crime is a symptom of a dysfunctional society. I do not agree that it is necessarily true a lot of times. I also wonder if higher education resulting in less "criminal activity" could also just mean they are not getting caught at the same rate. I once had someone tell me "the only criminals in jail are the dumb ones." I don't know if it is true or not, of course.

This is a false dichotomy. The alternative to the death penalty isn't 'letting repeat offenders go,' it's life in prison without the possibility of parole.[/quote]

So perhaps I do not believe in life in prison without the possibility of parole. Actually, when I really think of it, I guess I don't believe in it. What's the point?

It is a statistical fact that, all other factors being equal, a society with higher poverty and privation will also have higher crime. It might be difficult to prove any one criminal would have been an upstanding citizen under other circumstances, but statistically there will be less crime where there is less privation.

The point is to get dangerous people off the streets, and to remove their freedom as punishment for what they've done. It has the benefit of being more reversible than frying someone if it is later found that the wrong person was convicted.

Source that so called "statistical fact" Please give references to properly conducted statistical studies correlating income to rates of crime. Let us see some facts, instead of your blithe assertions. Produce references please.

ruveyn

I'd say that there is people who do heinous crimes, and must be kept away from everybody else or they'll do them again. In that case, where life imprisonment is the alternative, why not the death penalty?

Seconded

There are reversible alternatives to capital execution that acheive the same end.

ruveyn

Well... I get the concerns on killing the wrong person. And when things are not that clear, those alternatives might as well do. But what if it is proven beyond a doubt that the perpetrator is guilty of their crimes? It wouldn't happen often, true, but in those cases reversibility should not be an issue, because they ARE guilty.

Setting the standards of "proven beyond a doubt" is a different matter though =/

I don't see how the death penalty is useful for anything. It has been shown to be more costly than life in prison and useless as a deterrent (it was probably more effective when they showed the bodies in the street, though). Nothing good comes out of it.

This is an ethical objection, btw.


There is a point. It's called "conditionning".

EXACTLY!


What InThisTogether and ruveyn don't seem to get is that the Death Penalty fails to live up to its purpose as a true punishment. It is not a deterrent to crime and costs a Hell of a lot money! There is also far too much politics involved in who gets a death sentence and who gets life without parole: And it is not based on the nature of the crime, it is based on their social status and their perception in the community where they are being tried. If the killer is someone who is well liked and respected, and does not belong to a minority group that is despised in that area, then they are far more likely to get life w/out parole but still get out after serving part of their sentence.

It’s a major contradiction straight out of the bible, an eye for an eye.

You have performed a terrible crime by killing someone, so we are going to kill you.

It doesn’t make sense, but then again neither does the bible...

If you look at the top 5 nations with the highest murder rates, they all have 1 thing in common: A chronic infestation of organized crime. Poor people want to get rich, but those who are rich have an incentive to make it difficult, if not impossible for those who aren't rich to become so. Because if the poor start getting rich easily, those who are already rich will lose money. That's why poor people turn to crime in societies where there are wealthy people in addition to widespread poverty. People in the criminal class are violent because the competition is extremely fierce and they recognize that they can get ahead by preying on other criminals. And that's where the killing starts, my friend.

Mexico is ever more privatized that the US. In fact, in most of Latin America the police are effectively privatized and corrupt as hell. They'll only protect you from violent thugs if you can pay them enough and if they have the time.

The state kills enough people already.

Nothing much has changed in thousands of years of rule.

Government and people, who works for who..?

It's not that I don't "GET" it.

And really, it is the ultimate punishment. If you are inferring that it is not a true deterrent, that may be true, but that may be because--at least in places like the US--it happens so rarely that I don't think people take it as a serious possibility as they rape and murder.

There is no reason why it should cost 250K to execute someone. Aside from the fact that I am not primarily concerned with using it as a form of "punishment" so much as a form of ensuring that no one will ever again be harmed by someone who shows blatant disregard for life. Life imprisonment is expensive (and there is no way to cut that cost down, as I am assuming there should be with captial punishment) and if I had a choice as to where to spend my tax money, it would be on education, not prison. In fact, I think you would be hard pressed to find Americans who would elect to send some of their tax money to the prison system.

There are some heinous crimes in which there really is no question who did it. Your dad comes in and shoots you, your mom, her new husband and your baby sister, leaving all of you for dead, only you didn't die? You saw him. You know who did it. Death penalty. No long drawn out appeals process. No years of waiting. Death.

A man's DNA is found inside of 5 rape victims who were beaten bloody? Death penalty. No long drawn out appeals process. No years of waiting. Death.

You are a known gang member who drives through a playground, spraying bullets everywhere, 2 of which hit kids and kill them? Your neighbors all know you and saw you do it. Death penalty.

Plus, I'd like to see how the costs of implementing the death penalty are calculated and where the figures come from. I am wary of all things like that because anything with numbers is easy to skew to make your own point. For example, if it includes the cost of imprisonment (the 42K a year) while they are appealing, that shouldn't be included because it would be a cost incurred even if they were not up for the death penalty.

No. I "get it."

I just don't agree.

Opposed to it. Very much opposed to it.