Israel and its abuse of the anti semitism card

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Exactly - if you're an Israeli Arab, you can serve in the IDF, work as a doctor, a teacher, a journalist, become a court judge, a businessman, anything you like. In the same society as Israeli Jews. If this really were South African apartheid, none of this would be true. Israeli Arabs live alongside Jews in many cases.



This isn't about land - it isn't about territory. If it was, the Palestinians wouldn't keep bringing up the 1967 borders, even though various Arab countries attacked Israel in 1967 and lost. They also wouldn't attack Israel even inside the pre-1967 borders.

Israel's actions in the occupied territories must be distinguished from Israeli policy within Israel proper. Israel has endorsed a two state solution. Israel and Fatah were very close together on a land swap. Fatah was well positioned to created institutions for sustainable democratic government. It is not Israel's responsibility to unilaterally withdraw--it is Israel's responsibility to negotiate and attempt to reach agreement.



I doubt this will ever happen. "The Palestinians" (i.e. the terrorist groups) want total victory and the destruction of Israel. You can't negotiate with people like that.



Exactly. If anything, the Palestinian people are being repressed by the people they elect and idolise. Some Palestinians can see right through this, and they are silenced. That's why many Palestinians move away.



But... Zionism is racist! The State of Israel must be destroyed!

Israel is an explicitly JEWISH state, founded by JEWS wanting a JEWISH COUNTRY. What do you expect Islamic Arabs to believe, if JEWS from all around the world build such a state and Jews from many countries support it financially (i.e. American Jews providing pretty much all the funding for the Haganah and IDF in the early years of Israel's existence)



AFAIK only the Jews who don't convert to Christianity when Jesus returns are annihilated. MOST Jews convert to Christianity in the Armageddon story IIRC.

With regards to the statement in bold.....Seriously Tequila, where do you get this misinformation from? Or did you just make that up???

In order to serve in the IDF, you must be a Jew by birth. Do you really think the Israeli's are that stupid to let Israeli Arab MUSLIMS serve in their military? F*ck no! They are considered to be disloyal, and with good reason.





And visagrunt:

You have a few very serious misconceptions about Israel. And one of the biggest misconceptions is that Israel is the 51st state(of the USofA). Nothing could be further from the truth. As Warsie pointed out, Israel is NOT a secular country and has no legal separation of state and synagogue.

I have to tell you - as soon as this Icke guy started spouting off about secret societies and Zionist conspiracies involving the Rothschilds, he immediately lost credibility with me.
Do Palestinians warrant sympathy for everything they've been through? Absolutely. To be sure, destroying the family house of a Palestinian terrorist, and leaving his family homeless is going to do nothing but make more terrorists. But neither am I going to ignore how the governments of the Palestinian Authority and other Middle Eastern states have constantly whipped their people into homicidal rage against Israel, Jews, and westerners in general, from childhood on.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Not all Israeli Arabs are Muslims.

First of all, that volunteering service is for non-Israeli Jews wanting to volunteer for the IDF.

In Israel itself, all Israelis are subject to conscription by law. Now, the government has the ability to disqualify certain people or classes of people from service if they don't think they are suitable. In the early years, Israel disqualified all minorities in Israel (including Israeli Arabs, which was your contention).

However, you forget the examples of the Israeli Druze, the Circassians and the Bedouin tribes, both of which are Israeli Arabs - so some Arabs in Israel do serve in the IDF.

The Druze are a monotheistic religious community, found primarily in Syria, Lebanon, Israel, and Jordan, which emerged during the 11th century from as an offshoot of Shia Islam. The Druze are Arabic-speaking citizens of Israel (and from 1949 Druze leaders requested that Druze conscription into the IDF be mandatory). Members of the community have attained top positions in Israeli politics and public service. The number of Druze parliament members usually exceeds their proportion in the Israeli population, integrated within several political parties.

The Circassians in Israel are also a small, moderate Sunni Muslim group in Israel (numbering around 4,000 people). Since 1958 all male Circassians (at their leader's request) must complete the Israeli mandatory military service upon reaching the age of majority, while females do not. Many Circassians in Israel are employed in the Israeli security forces, including in the Israeli Border Police, the Israeli Defence Forces, the Israeli Police and the Israeli Prison Service. The percentage of the army recruits among the Circassian community in Israel is particularly high.

Israeli Bedouin (nomadic Arab tribes) in the Negev (this area is a desert) area are often encouraged to take part and join the IDF and many of them do choose to serve in the IDF (12% of the Arab population) as it's a good career for them, though they are exempted as a rule. Enlistment has fluctuated a lot in recent years due to the Islamic influence on these tribes.

Regular non-Circassian Muslim and Christian Arabs can join the IDF if they volunteer, but almost none of them want to for very good reasons of their own (that they'd be seen to be traitors by their entire communities). And the Israeli government is happy with that situation, for very good reasons of its own (that they'd seen to be traitors to Israel at any moment in time, working for the other side). There are one or two Muslim soldiers working for the IDF, but they're a totally minute proportion of IDF soldiers.

There have been some very noted Arab Israeli military personnel, but these have been Bedouins, the Muslim Circassians and the Druze and not Israeli Arab Christians or Muslims.

They're brainwashed with this hatred from childhood. You can see little toddlers on TV say how much they hate Jews and how they want to kill themselves for the glory of the Palestinian martyrs. It's taught in the mosques, on children's television programmes (on Palestinian TV, this is all day, every day), by parents and schools, in books (The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is actually quoted from verbatim as fact in Saudi school textbooks!), in newspapers and on news channels, during religious debates, through the imams and scholars and it pickles society more generally.

The sheer comprehensiveness and thoroughness of Jew hatred in Arabic countries is the problem.

Semites include all persons of Middle-Eastern ("Arab") descent, not just the people of Medīnat Yisrā'el. Wouldn't the most accurate term be anti-Zionism due to the fact that what most in the Muslim community are against the idea of them taking land that belonged to Palestine and establishing a "Jewish state?" It would be nice to see both live together in a mutually-titled land, but we all know that simply will never happen.

That is incorrect actually. Up to recently Arabs were exempt from the draft, but could volunteer to join the IDF. Not sure of total numbers but saw 400 have volunteered in last two years, including some woman. The current law governing the draft expired 1 Aug and a lot is being debated about ending exemption for orthodox jews and arabs to draft.

Here is first Arab woman to join a Combat unit, Elinor Joeseph, who is in the majority female Karakal Assault Battalion.

She had better not wear those earrings when going into battle. Might lose an ear... And she should put some tape on her watch band to prevent it from being stuck in some object during combat... Doesn't the IDF know *anything* about safety in military operations? AND PUT ON YOUR DAMN HELMET, SOLDIER! (typical Aspie response)

I'm astonished that Muslims are permitted to serve in the IDF. The reason is due to loyalty issues.

IDK, but it may be a staged PR photo. I think by some insignia she wears she may be a medic. The Karakal Battalion is about 70% percent female. Talk about lucky, to be in the other 30%.

The Druze also have a very good reason to join the IDF, and to support Israel in general. Given that mainstream Sunni Islam prescribes (Al-Hudood) the death penalty for "apostates", they are not only fighting for Israel, but for their lives.

Among other reasons the lady above mentioned having her neighborhood bombed (I forget if by Rockets or Mortars) by PLO or something similiar.

There are very, very few of them because of the loyalty issues and they do receive an awful lot of prejudice and difficulty in getting where they are (and not unreasonably IMO either). But they exist. Ala Wahib is an Arab Muslim IDF officer at a ground forces training base. See here (http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=5727). As a result, he's essentially cut off from his entire family and has to be very careful who he associates with.

She's quite lovely.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Yup.

Here's a fav pic of two other Israeli Defense Force women.