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thomas81
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04 Nov 2012, 8:23 pm

Inventor wrote:
America passed Fascism in the back strech, and coming around the turn it is America by three lengths, Fascism goose stepping along, and all the other horses have given up and are feeding in the Meadows of Debt.

Fascism is when the religion and business pick a government. We have that.

Their plan is a non plan, that no one can regulate them. We have that.

Their platform is God knows what he is doing. To question is to doubt God. We have that.

All problems can be solved by the Police and Millitary. We have that.

Non believers must be forced to tithe in their net worth, lives of their children, for the State of God. We have that.

Wealth is the measure of Gods Love, and only some are worthy. We have that.

God will provide even if we print money day and night, to fund Gods Work. We have that.

It always ends with the money becoming worthless, Fascists hanging by their heels from lamp posts, and everyone denying they had anything to do with it. Coming soon to a neighbiorhood near you.


Thank you!

Finally a fellow sane voice.



Jacoby
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04 Nov 2012, 8:33 pm

thomas81 wrote:
blackelk wrote:


It's not poorly defined, you just don't want to accept the definition and twist it to suit your views.

So you admit libertarianism is a different entity than fascism.

Again, Mussolini wanted centralization, Paul wants decentralization.


I said that they are different entities, cosmetically only.

I also said that the end result is the same.

Its sort of how American capitalism is a different entity to Chinese 'Socialism'.
blackelk wrote:

Again, Mussolini wanted centralization, Paul wants decentralization.


For the same purpose.

Greater power for the private sector and wealthy sponsors.


corporations exert their power thru the state, without the state doing their bidding they they would have no way of gaining an unfair advantage over their competitors and would have to survive on their own. It's a big misnomer to believe that big business is a fan of the free market, they want a free lunch like everyone else..



MarketAndChurch
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05 Nov 2012, 2:21 am

all the more reason then to stock up on some guns and liberalize gun laws. Matter of fact, Occupy, who has forseen this fascistic state we are heading for some time now, should spearhead the move to arm every citizen.


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DancingDanny
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05 Nov 2012, 6:31 am

Jacoby wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
blackelk wrote:


It's not poorly defined, you just don't want to accept the definition and twist it to suit your views.

So you admit libertarianism is a different entity than fascism.

Again, Mussolini wanted centralization, Paul wants decentralization.


I said that they are different entities, cosmetically only.

I also said that the end result is the same.

Its sort of how American capitalism is a different entity to Chinese 'Socialism'.
blackelk wrote:

Again, Mussolini wanted centralization, Paul wants decentralization.


For the same purpose.

Greater power for the private sector and wealthy sponsors.


corporations exert their power thru the state, without the state doing their bidding they they would have no way of gaining an unfair advantage over their competitors and would have to survive on their own. It's a big misnomer to believe that big business is a fan of the free market, they want a free lunch like everyone else..


Then you admit that your beliefs are abstract.



Jacoby
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05 Nov 2012, 9:45 am

DancingDanny wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
blackelk wrote:


It's not poorly defined, you just don't want to accept the definition and twist it to suit your views.

So you admit libertarianism is a different entity than fascism.

Again, Mussolini wanted centralization, Paul wants decentralization.


I said that they are different entities, cosmetically only.

I also said that the end result is the same.

Its sort of how American capitalism is a different entity to Chinese 'Socialism'.
blackelk wrote:

Again, Mussolini wanted centralization, Paul wants decentralization.


For the same purpose.

Greater power for the private sector and wealthy sponsors.


corporations exert their power thru the state, without the state doing their bidding they they would have no way of gaining an unfair advantage over their competitors and would have to survive on their own. It's a big misnomer to believe that big business is a fan of the free market, they want a free lunch like everyone else..


Then you admit that your beliefs are abstract.
you can say nonsensical things and think you have a point I suppose



DancingDanny
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05 Nov 2012, 9:54 am

That's very sensible. How are people who think like you going to get the free market that you want if big business doesn't want it?



Jacoby
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05 Nov 2012, 10:37 am

DancingDanny wrote:
That's very sensible. How are people who think like you going to get the free market that you want if big business doesn't want it?

Thanks for clearing that up, being vague in ones posts can be confusing

But to answer your question, reduce the size and scope of government that they can lobby and exert their power over. If one can accept the notion that these 'special interests' exert their power and influence through the hand of government then the idea of using more government to curtail it makes little sense.



DancingDanny
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05 Nov 2012, 10:40 am

After we reduce the size of government and big business continues on its path to hold a monopoly, then what?



Jacoby
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05 Nov 2012, 10:54 am

DancingDanny wrote:
After we reduce the size of government and big business continues on its path to hold a monopoly, then what?


How can a monopoly exist if it doesn't have government stifling competition?



RushKing
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05 Nov 2012, 11:14 am

To reduce the size of government in right-libertarian terms, is to give large businesses more power. To them it would mean cheaper labor. It means more people starving on the streets. It means more people racing to work in their sweatshops. It means more prisoners to make money off of. More slavery, more greed and more tyranny.



DancingDanny
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05 Nov 2012, 11:25 am

Jacoby wrote:
DancingDanny wrote:
After we reduce the size of government and big business continues on its path to hold a monopoly, then what?


How can a monopoly exist if it doesn't have government stifling competition?


What about Cornelius Vanderbilt and John D. Rockefeller?



Tollorin
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05 Nov 2012, 11:51 am

Jacoby wrote:
DancingDanny wrote:
After we reduce the size of government and big business continues on its path to hold a monopoly, then what?


How can a monopoly exist if it doesn't have government stifling competition?

By forming his own government. They just have to get they're own private army to destroy the competition. Who will prevent them? A government who don't exist anymore? All hail to Shinra corp!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFvYSsbkq3k[/youtube]


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thomas81
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06 Nov 2012, 4:31 pm

The pro-libertarians can attempt to brow beat me as much as they like but it doesnt remove the fact that they follow an inherently destructive, unworkable and unfeasible ideology.

The simpletons, the feeble of mind, the ignorant, the greedy and the downright sociopathic voting for the GOP this week are complicit in fast tracking America to the corporate run dystopia that the laissez faire economists and hacks in Fox news have envisaged.

Libertarianism and fascism shares an equal contempt of democracy and the democratic process. Both libertarians and fascists despise the idea that the common man could have a say in how to run, much less that they can access goods and services that actually effect them. Where fascists seek to remove the ballot box through force and legislation the libertarians remove the effectuality of democracy through economic co-ercion and the seperation of production and industry from state. The vote becomes wholly irrelevant when accountable, elected figures are removed from positions that effect ordinary people. Industry leaders become accountable only to those with the greatest spending power, and the plutocracy is greatly amplified to its extreme sense.



TM
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06 Nov 2012, 5:08 pm

thomas81 wrote:

Libertarianism and fascism shares an equal contempt of democracy and the democratic process.


As do communism, feudalism, to a degree social democracy (as evidenced by the EU, a non democratically elected ruling board which sovereign governments must follow), anarchism, and just about every other ideology there is.

I should probably end with some quotes about democracy:

"The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter" Winston Churchill.

"Think about how stupid the average person is, now consider that half of them are even stupider than that" George Carlin.

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. "
H. L. Mencken

"The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don't have to waste your time voting. "
Charles Bukowski

"Democracy is a device that insures that we shall be governed no better than we deserve" George Bernard Shaw.

"Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people, by the people, for the people" Oscar Wilde.

"Democracy is the art and science of running the circus from the monkey cage" H.L Mencken.

"An ideal form of government is democracy tempered with assassination" Voltaire.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance" H.L Mencken.

and perhaps my favorite,

"Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner" Benjamin Franklin.



thomas81
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06 Nov 2012, 5:13 pm

TM wrote:

As do communism, feudalism, to a degree social democracy (as evidenced by the EU, a non democratically elected ruling board which sovereign governments must follow), anarchism, and just about every other ideology there is.

.


Communism advocates direct democracy as opposed to parliamentary or representitive democracy, whereby all citizens are permitted to partake in the decision making process.

Libertarianism and Fascism are antonymous with democracy in any context.



TM
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06 Nov 2012, 5:18 pm

thomas81 wrote:
TM wrote:

As do communism, feudalism, to a degree social democracy (as evidenced by the EU, a non democratically elected ruling board which sovereign governments must follow), anarchism, and just about every other ideology there is.

.


Communism advocates direct democracy as opposed to parliamentary or representitive democracy, whereby all citizens are permitted to partake in the decision making process.

Libertarianism and Fascism are antonymous with democracy in any context.


Actually, communism advocates a rule by the party prior to the full transition into a classless society.

I'd love to hear you make the argument that libertarianism is antonymous with democracy though...