Which pre-Christian civilization was best for women?

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I hope you know that having sex with someone who is forced to be a prostitute is kinda rapey.

I'll just name a few and we'll go from there.

Protecting the Adulterer
A woman who was suspected of having an affair was given a potion to check for infidelity, and if her belly didn't blow up, which it never did, women's lives were saved. The point was to save lives, potions don't have any magical powers. But Judaism knew, to make monogamy workable while maintaining the severity of the crime by upholding the punishment of death, it had to make that exception and let women off the hook. What we learn here is the principle: Do not cheat.

Rights of the Raped
A woman who is, even on the slightest whim, suspected of having been raped is fully absolved, her rapist is killed if she is engaged to someone else, or has to pay twice the fine of virginity in addition to being forced to marry her and never having the right to divorce. Ever.

Protections from Libel
A woman who is suspected of having had premarital sex and no longer has her virginity has many ways to avoid death. She can fake blood stains as was done frequently in the ancient world, her family can produce the sheets with faked blood stains, he may not care, he can go quietly and return her to her father's house and get his money back, but death of a non-virgin was exceedingly rare. You would be destroying your relations with that group of individuals, and it is very likely that if they catch suspicion of you faking it, her father's kin would kill you. Men often would libel virgins of not being one just to be able to divorce them, and Judaism had to deal with that unfortunate reality. So the charges of libeling a woman of not being a virgin would destroy you so most people just dropped it all together since there was so much leeway for a woman to get out of her punishment.

A right to Divorce:
A woman who wants out of a divorce, but her husband won't allow it was dealt with severely. It is sad that the Rabbi's have interpreted that only the man can initiate divorce. The Rabbi's felt they were bound by the torah but there were also many cases where the man just wasn't worthy of being married to a woman. He was too lazy and won't work, or, he is abusive, or a whole host of issues. So they came to the conclusion that the community can initiate a divorce by whipping the man into giving one. The law was very clear on how much you whip him: "Until he says, I want to give a divorce."

A right to a Bill Of Divorcement:
A woman had a right to a bill of divorcement. A man could not just kick a woman out, he had to go through legal aspects before the two are officially divorced. Divorce for ancient women meant a life of impoverishment.

Givers Of Life
A woman is the giver of life (EVE), and children are the future of life, so they were saved in military excursions. They are also often innocent of a nation's or tribe's foreign policy.

A Right To Sex and a Relationship:
A woman was owed a certain amount of SEX depending on her husbands profession. If a man was a sailor, she could not get sex for long periods of time, so even the time a Jew can be out at sea was limited. When he is first married, it is mandatory that he take a leave of absence for one year from serving in the military to foster a relationship with his wife. If the man is retired, he owes his wife sex daily. OWES being rather rigid, she gets her fill even if you are not in the mood.

Equal In Gods Eyes:
A woman and husband are equals in the eyes of God, and the order of relationship are mentioned interchangeably in the bible to make that explicit (Husband and Wife, Wife and Husband).



In Conclusion:
So in affect, you were protected from being called out as an adulterer. Women aren't the only ones who cheat, men cheat even more, we have to protect the women from being libeled a cheater. You were protected if you had had premarital sex, as some normal people would, and all scholars attest to this. Women were given a right to divorce by the community at large, and she was given a bill of goods to protect her in her life after the divorce. In every other culture, you were just dumped, and a life of impoverishment ensued, often followed by prostitution or doing whatever you could to survive. You are equal in God's eyes to your husband, and you not only have rights to sex, but a relationship as well.

The majority of the hero's of the bible are women. Where a woman and a man are mentioned in the text, the woman is far more impressive. Be it from our liberator Eve, to Sarah, Rebecca, or Esther. We have the only creation of women in our creation myth in the ancient near east. No other creation myths include the creation of woman. Woman's creation in the text is far more elevated then Man's.(I can explain further if you wish). Her role in life is also far more impressive then Man's. (I can explain further if you wish).

There are just so many examples, and my knowledge of the text is still young, perhaps others of you can also chime in and make the case for women of the holy book as having it better then women of other nations. I'll flesh these views out even further really soon, and use the example of Eve from another thread I posted on.

There are times when coitus is a cultural expectation. For example, on your wedding night. Or, possibly at the conclusion of a third date, if there be any credibility to the Third Date Rule. In some parts of the world, a woman might not have ever seen her husband before the wedding, and both families will be looking for evidence of a defloration to celebrate.

The Bablylonian custom was probably no bigger deal than, say, the Christian Communion, or Confirmation. The Temple got its money, the God was glorified and appeased, a successful harvest was assured, and society was held together.

Even you have to admit that religious prostitution is preferable to sacrificing a virgin.

I don't know what the punishment would have been for a woman who refused to participate. Possibly just social pressure--for example, as in the Southern States, if someone refuses to go to church, he'll be socially shunned. Many women probably looked forward to the event as fulfilling an important civic duty.

Women have always been important to every society--we couldn't propagate without them. In Ancient Babylon, women had a central role in the nation's religious practices, and were not shunted off to the side, as in the Yahwehist tradition.

^^^^^The people in the South may have shunned people twenty or so years ago but not now,I don't go to church and it's not a big deal.When I was a kid the Baptists were kind of pushy about it but no one was shunned,they just politely told you that you were going to Hell.

Sex with anyone who doesn't want to have sex is rape, no matter what the civic function of it is. And we don't know what the punishment was - it could be harsh for all we know.

You wouldn't want her to sin, would you?

likewise



There are some obligations on both sides of the aisle.

You might get an unpleasant surprise, should you build that time machine. There's no incentive for those women to pretend to enjoy it, like real prostitutes do.

If I ever get back there, then I'll let you know.

The worst that can happen: she lays on her back and ignores me. I know that they aren't really professionals at it.

The dissociation required to go through with that is pretty bad (from the POV of the one being f****d). It might not be so bad for you, but I can say that just lying there frozen with fear is pretty bad from the other person's perspective.

Virginity... Shmurginity....
I have no respect for cultures that respect virginity unless there were real movements within the culture to protect the woman, her worth, and even possibly her life, as there was in Judaism. A guy can deflower as many virgins as he pleases, but a woman loses her virginity and she's all of a sudden worthless? Worthy of contempt? Murdered? Judaism has the only workable example, there are no other I can think of in the ancient world. What is the value of praising virginity if it only goes in one direction.


Cultic Prostitution In The Ancient World.
Temple prostitution was had in Greece to Mesopotamia, from Egypt to West Africa, in ancient India and amongst many of the tribes of Europe. Zeus, Ishtar, Isis, El, Krishna, and many of the Gods of the ancient world repeatedly raped men and women.

We are beautifying what wasn't always a beautiful act. We are imagining an orgy by willing participants, and a world where no means no. Age, relation, gender, species, none of these things mattered. They performed oral, anal, and had sex with animals. Slaves, children, were often raped in these ceremonies.

Anal was looked upon as worshiping a female god because that is a man's vagina, and given the context of sex in those days where they did not divide by gender: It was purely a power act from the giver to the receiver. The hierarchy being Gods, Man, and then everything else. Power was worshipped, as power shapes their world where Might is Right.

We have to remember that we don't glorify great bastions of power because it is all encompassing and corrupting, such as the UN or for many of you, the US Government. We should not glorify most of these ancient religious histories unless there were movements within them to be ethical. Otherwise, you've seen one example in Greece, its as if you've seen them all. Israel stands alone, their torah being one of many proofs. It wasn't anymore beautifying of a communal activity then a community of Afghani's meeting up in the towns square to watch a man stoned to death for cursing or for working on the sabbath. Do people find it beautiful? Of course, they are living out the will of God as they see it, but what brings the community together isn't always beautiful, noble, or moral.


Cultic Prostitution In Israel
There was even cultic prostitution in Israel. It was fought against, the torah railed against it, but it was so much a part of the norm in the ancient near east, every culture surrounding the Jews had it and that made it difficult to keep Judaism pure. Though there were movements amongst Jews to bring priestly prostitution back to the holy land, the Kings and the prophets of the old testament banned it and it was the most effective ban in the ancient world, the only known society in its time to have done so.

She would just have to keep sitting there, even for years, until someone chose her. Letting her get it over with, so that she could finally go home, would be an act of charity.

Would it be an act of charity to go in and slay the people on death row, to save them the wait?

And no, I don't want to argument that follows whenever someone compares rape to murder, that's not what I'm trying to do.

Actually, most of the biggest history buffs I know are dudes.

You may be right. Probably not a lot of chicks dressing up and re-enacting Civil War battles.

History may continue to be a male-dominated field of study.

Sparta was best for the women. Since the men came home under cover of dark to have sex, the women were allowed to cavort with each other while it was daylight. And Spartan women were expected to stay slim and sound of health so they could bear strong sons.

ruveyn

Looks like you are right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_ancient_Sparta

The gents might have enjoyed Athens

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Classical_Athens

I wouldn't really be up for Spartan military service.