The true murderers of the abortion debate

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Whats extra ironic is that the woman who was allowed to die was almost certainly not catholic.

This is exactly what I wanted pro-lifers to do. To claim emotional blackmail. This is what you do ALL THE FREAKING TIME when you try to call abortion murder.

But take some responsibility. The dehumanization you perform against the woman is having this sort of consequences.



Err, they do. All the time always.

Fox news argumentation. You have reached negative credibility. Perhaps if you keep doing this you will underflow the negative integer range and reach positive and close to infinite credibility.

Is that your plan?

That would actually be clever.

Flies know where to fly to if you are about to try to smash them. This sort of reflex reaction does not seem like a valid thing to make us want to stop killing flies.

That is physiologically incorrect. A 'reflex arc,' which is what the early twitches shown by a fetus are, does not ever reach the brain and cannot be learned or trained. A racecar driver (or anyone else who trains for a long time in any physical action, from typing on a keyboard to a martial artist moving his face out of the way of a punch) has certain patterns of action ingrained in the cerebellum, which coordinates movement, and the activation of those actions in the primitive regions of the brain responsible for what we notice and respond to. Though these latter things are referred to in lay terms as 'reflexes,' they are not the same thing.

this is incorrect. From the article:

bolding mine.


How...
pointless.

According to Genevieve Shanahan:



http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/genevie ... 29423.html

That's repulsive. If I ever get pregnant, I'll have to remember to stay away from Ireland, in case something bad happens and they decide to let me die as if I were in a 3rd-world country.

The consultant acted out of law not religion but he did make the statement, "This is a catholic country." However I do not know if he ment this in a religious way or as an explanation as to why he was not able to terminate the baby at her request.
Abortion is illegal in Ireland no matter what, we gained the right to leave the country to get an abortion elsewhere in 1994 after the famous "X" case.
The reason for confusion is that the high court stated that it should be legal in cases of risk to mother's life after the "X" case (thus kind of giving precedant) but the government never actually wrote it into the law itself. The man can not be done for manslaughter as it would have broken the law. It is technically taoiseach Enda Kenny and the minister for health who commited the involuntary manslaughter but they will never be charged.

For Clarity Sake:
Because it is emotional blackmail. 99.999999999999% of abortions are performed for the convenience of the mother.

This represents what % of abortions? .000000000000001%?

This is an absolute tragedy, and the hospital should have given her the abortion. We are supposed to change our position because of the slightest chance it may harm an innocent? And how will you deal with all of the abortions who are out of convenience? You won't, because you feel it is the right of the women.


You Don't Represent Women:
You stand up for "women"... how do you explain all of the women who are pro-life? Those women, us men who are pro-life, are almost equal in numbers, 53% of men, and 46% of women, namely married men and women. How come Americans are more pro-life then ever? Because this isn't selfishly just about the woman. This is about society, to which women are a part of. This is about the rights of the life she bares. It depends on how you frame the issue, and if this is only about the women and her rights, then sure, but who will speak on behalf of the unborn?


This is Emotional Blackmail
Using this incident or rape is emotional blackmail. It is a smokescreen meant to impede the conscience and moral reasoning of people. Let's just call this what it is: Tragic. That is what it is. But we shouldn't be using said tragedies to make people feel guilty about the ramifications of their position when it is .00000000001% of the case in the United States. I understand this is overseas. But that doesn't stop people in the US from using it to manipulate people emotionally.

Emotional manipulation is the second most effective tool of the left, alongside assuming intentions and mockery. As I've pointed out before, it isn't limited to abortion, but to every issue that is debated.

source, please?


We deal with abortions "of convenience" (as if pregnancy and childbirth were a mere 'inconvenience') with the fact that no human has a right to use the body of another human without their permission.



More Americans call themselves pro-life, by a slim margin, but if you look at what they actually believe (as opposed to what they call themselves), you will find that they hold views that used to fall under the umbrella of 'pro-choice,' ie, 'I wouldn't choose an abortion for myself, but I don't think that I have a right to tell others what to do with their bodies.' Or, 'I don't approve of late-term abortions, but I have no problem with early ones.'


Tell you what: we stop mentioning rape, and your side stops mentioning abortions in the third trimester.


No, it's observable fact.


Not every scientist, but statistically the very few climate scientists who deny anthropogenic climate change tend to be on the payroll of fossil fuel companies. Most of the rest are speculating outside of their specialty.


No one has to tell them that; a lot of them figure it out on their own - to the shame of us all.


As opposed to goddists railing on about sin?
As opposed to bright-siders telling us that 'It's morning in America, and everything is just fine!' (or stoners telling us, 'It's all good, Maaannnnn!')

Although 99.999999999999% is obviously exaggerated, the reports for reasons of abortion are as follows:

74% Having a baby would dramatically change my life
73% Cannot afford a baby now
48% Do not want to be a single mother or having relationship problems
38% Have completed my childbearing
32% Not ready for another child
25% Do not want people to know I had sex or got pregnant
22% Do not feel mature enough to raise another child
14% Husband or partner wants me to have an abortion
13% Possible problems affecting the health of the fetus
12% Concerns about my health
6% Parents want me to have an abortion
1% Was a victim of rape

So the vast majority of abortions are for selfish reasons.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3711005.pdf

Last edited by robo37 on 15 Nov 2012, 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pulling the Fox news card is an outdated fallacy used by left-wingers... just like sweeping evidence of succesful and healthy premature infants born at less than 24 weeks.

Brainwashed adherents of infanticide did the same thing a thousand years ago.



Flies do not "know" anything and their brain is just a hub for their central nervous system. The flee reaction is sent directly to the muscles and the movement itself isn't complex at all. The fly has no control over this reaction. Furthermore, the fact that the fly will fly right back after three seconds only prove that flies have (at best) a memory only lasting a few seconds.

Post evidence of a fly graduating college and having a normal IQ, like James Elgin Gill—or you will have lost this debate.

You say it like it was a bad thing. Why shouldn't women (I assume they are human beings) be entitled to look for their convenience?

It does not matter what intentions or rationale the mother has. The thing is that early abortions have much less risk of death than birth. So, regardless of intention, all abortions are a benefit to the mother's life.

The women that are pro-life have NO RIGHT to impose their views on other women. Not even their own daughters. They can only get to decide whether they themselves abort or not.

What I propose is to allow women to decide what to do with their own bodies. If they want to keep the pregnancy that's ok.

I'd say it is because US is also less scientifically literate than ever. I would point my fingers towards religious extremism but... actually I am pointing my fingers towards religious extremism. Creationists, racists, misogynists, sexists they are at fault. They have created whole giant disinformation networks to live in their sweet fantasies.

The life of something that is not a person. Why should this life be worth more than the life of the mother - actually a person?

Why should we give forum to non-people?

Who speaks on behalf of flies? We kill them all the time.


Calling abortion murder is emotional blackmail. So why is it that only anti-choicers are allowed to do emotional blackmail? Why can't I?

And take some responsibility. Up there you can already see the quoted relevant parts of the Irish law. Law motivated by pro-lifers. Ireland is a pro-lifers' dream. Your proselytizing towards making laws that disregard the rights of women to decide what to do with their own bodies will have this sort of consequence.

Isn't that golden? The most insistent anti-choice speech is to tout responsibility. Why can't pro-lifers take some responsibility of this tragedy? Instead they are trying to divert the attention. But I am not a nice person and I won't let this go.

It's not really pro "life" if they are willing to let the mother die to try to save an unsaveable baby, which would die anyways if the mother dies. They may call themselves pro life but they sure didn't care about the mother's life.

I can see how it was related to my previous post.

The "21 weeks and five days" hadn't anything to do with consciousness. I was talking about viability; that number is the earliest that a premature born has survived. No fetus in recorded history has been viable before that, and even then this was a freak case where doctors though she (it was a girl) wouldn't make it.

Also, I could ask you to show me a case of a 25 YO fetus graduating college and having a normal IQ. Sure, it certainly as the potential to, but we're really talking about it as it is. Which doesn't matter as much anyway, because by the 25th week the fetus has decent chances of survival and abortion shouldn't be an option anymore.

Viability is besides the point. An infant alone stands no chance of survival either, but that does not justify infanticide. A person with a transplanted heart can't survive without that heart, but that does not give the medical team the right to all of a sudden decide that they want the heart back again. Likewise, a person with a broken femur won't survive without help, but that doesn't give the medical team the right to ignore the injury and pretend it never happened.

There are no medical miracles; James Elgin Gill survived thanks to very skilled doctors, technology and good genetics.