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What would be the consequences of Iran getting nukes?

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Tequila
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18 Nov 2012, 12:08 pm

thomas81 wrote:
I was not informed of the druze before, nonetheless its irrelvant to the issue.


I think it's extremely relevant. You claimed that Israelis are engaged in "ungrounded western pathology and chauvinism against arabs and the arab world".

Rather blows a hole in your whole theory, then, considering that most Arab Druze and some Arab Bedouins support Israel, as well as some Arab Christians. Oh, and most Arab Muslims in Israel itself are happy to live in Israel, given their increased living standards and would not want to live in a Palestinian state.

Also, read this: http://www.timesofisrael.com/boshra-khalaila-telling-israel-like-it-is-in-arabic/



Last edited by Tequila on 18 Nov 2012, 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

GGPViper
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18 Nov 2012, 12:10 pm

thomas81 wrote:
GGPViper wrote:


Sweeping generalization: "ungrounded western pathology and chauvinism against arabs and the arab world".

This is an invalid premise. First and foremost I am western. Secondly a prescribed cause behind a opinion in this context isnt a generalisation, its a empirical conclusion.


If you agree that it is a *false* empirical conclusion, then I stand corrected...

thomas81 wrote:
Especially when one has experience of arabs and muslims which contradicts the popular perception of the group in the western public domain.

GGPViper wrote:
That is an extremely intolerant statement. The Druze have their own religion.

And they are apostates in the eyes of mainstream Islam (punishable by death), which give them every reason to fight for the existence of Israel.

The same thing applies for the Bahá'í. Their global headquarters is (surprise, surprise) in Israel.


I still don't understand what your original point was.


I think it was something like... "Don't hate Israel (a country recognized by the UN and surrounded by states religiously committed to exterminating Jews) with a vengeance".



Ann2011
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18 Nov 2012, 12:20 pm

If Iran got nuclear weapons maybe Israel would tone it down a bit and get out of the occupied territories.

If Iran used it's nuclear weapons, that would be a world-wide mess.


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18 Nov 2012, 12:22 pm

thomas81 wrote:

I think that the distrust of Iran having nukes is down to this .ungrounded western pathology and chauvinism against arabs and the arab world. As if Israel is westernised therefore 'better'.


You mean a pathology against Muslims, right? Iranians aren't Arabs.



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18 Nov 2012, 12:23 pm

thomas81 wrote:
The wall cutting off Gaza from any constituency to the west bank or Israel is effectively turning Gaza into a concentration camp. It has watch towers and a huge concrete wall preventing escape. What do you call it?

A wall that saves lives.

thomas81 wrote:
Tequila wrote:
If the Palestinians stop bombing and murdering Israelis,
come to the negotiating table, and genuinely negotiate peace - real peace - then the better for everyone - for the Palestinian people themselves, the Israelis, and for the entire region. The Palestinian and Arab leaders don't want peace though - they want to keep their people angry, poor, resentful, without good jobs, without good homes and so on. They want them to hate Jews and Israel for all the failings that they have in their lives (you should have a look at Arab media from time to time) without thinking about the root cause of their problem - the barbaric, religiously-obsessed theocratic dumps in which they live. The real cause of so much suffering in the Middle East has nothing to do with Israel or to do with Jews - it's down to the Islamist thugs and their leaders who have an iron grip over their peoples. The sooner the Arabs can shake off that grip, negotiate a lasting peace with Israel and live in a society where religion is put in its place, the better for everyone. Israeli, Syrian, Saudi Arabian, Jordanian, Lebanese, Egyptian, Libyan, etc...

More hysterical pro Israel ranting. By what measure does Israel's behaviour over the last week encourage peace? Yes Hamas is guilty of hatemongering close to election time, but the same can be said of Likud. Its of no coincidence of the timing of the latest Israeli bombing.


I don't think you understand what Hamas is really about. They want to kill every single Jew on the planet Earth...

That goes a bit beyond the events of the last week...



Tequila
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18 Nov 2012, 12:27 pm

GGPViper wrote:
A wall that saves lives.


Terrorist attacks from the Palestinian side of the fence have dropped massively since that wall was erected. I'm absolutely positive that the Israelis wouldn't have put it up unless it felt that they absolutely had to for their own safety and security. Easiest way to bring it down again? Stop killing civilians and fomenting hate. It's quite simple.

GGPViper wrote:
I don't think you understand what Hamas is really about. They want to kill every single Jew on the planet Earth...

That goes a bit beyond the events of the last week...


They're literally no different from Hitler. They want to kill all the Jews (not Israelis, but anyone who is Jewish) and make the world an Islamic caliphate.

Hamas are no different from Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah, the Taliban, and other jihadist/Salafist lunatics.

These are the sort of people I'm talking about:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHc3PG8qFxg[/youtube]



AspieRogue

18 Nov 2012, 12:39 pm

Jono wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
Would it necessarily be KABOOM? I don't think so. Pakistan and India haven't nuked each other yet.

I realise Iran probably isn't going to get one because it'd have a war with Israel and other powers on its hands before it would be built; a horrible, bloody war.


I wouldn't want Iran to get nukes. If they did, they'd probably launch one toward Israel.



No, they would not. Because they would get nuked back by BOTH Israel and the United States. What would happen though is that Turkey would kickstart their own Nuclear Weapons program and Saudi Arabia would soon follow. There would be an arms race, but most likely the end result would be a nuclear stalemate and eventually a more stable middle east. However, it would not be good news for the US and other western countries outside of that region.



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18 Nov 2012, 12:42 pm

Tequila wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
I was not informed of the druze before, nonetheless its irrelvant to the issue.


I think it's extremely relevant. You claimed that Israelis are engaged in "ungrounded western pathology and chauvinism against arabs and the arab world".
]


Turkeys voting for Christmas.



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18 Nov 2012, 12:44 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
Jono wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
Would it necessarily be KABOOM? I don't think so. Pakistan and India haven't nuked each other yet.

I realise Iran probably isn't going to get one because it'd have a war with Israel and other powers on its hands before it would be built; a horrible, bloody war.


I wouldn't want Iran to get nukes. If they did, they'd probably launch one toward Israel.



No, they would not. Because they would get nuked back by BOTH Israel and the United States. What would happen though is that Turkey would kickstart their own Nuclear Weapons program and Saudi Arabia would soon follow. There would be an arms race, but most likely the end result would be a nuclear stalemate and eventually a more stable middle east. However, it would not be good news for the US and other western countries outside of that region.


This.

Which is exactly why the United Snakes and its whore satellite nations are against Iranian nukes.



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18 Nov 2012, 12:46 pm

I'm not sure. I don't think the high-ups in Iran are stupid enough to let one off. But if in the wrong hands . . .

I'm more afraid of what the international response would be though. It seems like everyone is nudging at Iran, trying to piss it off. Even if Iran were to get one, everyone should STILL lay off. Well, unless they strike first, or if the country that was being targeted got some intelligence that was highly accurate. At that point it's two countries on a tight wire, each trying to knock the other one off.



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18 Nov 2012, 12:56 pm

Just to put the matter into perspective, everyone was against North Korea getting nukes for more or less exact the same reaons, because they were worried they would detonate one over Seoul.

Still hasn't happened.



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18 Nov 2012, 12:59 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Just to put the matter into perspective, everyone was against North Korea getting nukes for more or less exact the same reaons, because they were worried they would detonate one over Seoul.

Still hasn't happened.


No, they are just starving millions of their own citizens to death. The international community should respond by... oh, wait... North Korea has nukes...



AspieRogue

18 Nov 2012, 1:06 pm

Seabass wrote:
I'm not sure. I don't think the high-ups in Iran are stupid enough to let one off. But if in the wrong hands . . .

I'm more afraid of what the international response would be though. It seems like everyone is nudging at Iran, trying to piss it off. Even if Iran were to get one, everyone should STILL lay off. Well, unless they strike first, or if the country that was being targeted got some intelligence that was highly accurate. At that point it's two countries on a tight wire, each trying to knock the other one off.


Even the Iranian religious fanatics realize that if they give their nuclear warheads to someone else, the whole world will know where those warheads came from. Also, passing nuclear bombs to terrorists is a stupid thing for a state to do because if another nations intelligence finds out they could easily use covert spec_ops forces to capture those weapons and they'd end up in the hands of the enemy.



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18 Nov 2012, 1:35 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
Seabass wrote:
I'm not sure. I don't think the high-ups in Iran are stupid enough to let one off. But if in the wrong hands . . .

I'm more afraid of what the international response would be though. It seems like everyone is nudging at Iran, trying to piss it off. Even if Iran were to get one, everyone should STILL lay off. Well, unless they strike first, or if the country that was being targeted got some intelligence that was highly accurate. At that point it's two countries on a tight wire, each trying to knock the other one off.


Even the Iranian religious fanatics realize that if they give their nuclear warheads to someone else, the whole world will know where those warheads came from. Also, passing nuclear bombs to terrorists is a stupid thing for a state to do because if another nations intelligence finds out they could easily use covert spec_ops forces to capture those weapons and they'd end up in the hands of the enemy.


Yep. That's why I doubt anything would happen. But when you mix in religion (a dangerous one at that!) and fundamental extremists, ya never know what'll happen.



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18 Nov 2012, 1:48 pm

Iran would have nukes.


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18 Nov 2012, 1:49 pm

thomas81 wrote:

Nuking Israel would also result in a lot of dead Palestinians as well which would pretty much null the point of their dislike of Israel.

.


Do you really think the shi'ites give a rats a** about Palestinians. What they want is dead Sunnis and dead Jews.

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