Palestinian girl stands up to IDF thugs

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26 Nov 2012, 3:51 pm

The Israeli-imposed "buffer zone" inside Gaza has been abolished, this zone that was used as a free-fire zone by Israel. The area in which Gaza fishermen can fish has also been expanded. The blockade is being eased. The Israelis have done an about face on the issue of its alleged right to hunt whomever it wants in Gaza whenever it wants, as it has agreed to not do these things. On paper at least, this is a total Hamas victory, and also in practice, we see some of these gains being made concretely.

Lastly, I want to point out that the Gaza Palestinians are not the worst off of them all, that honour belongs to the Area C Palestinians on the West Bank who are under direct Israeli control.

xenon13
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26 Nov 2012, 3:55 pm

GGPViper wrote:

xenon13 wrote:

Hamas won the last conflict and so this shows that standing up to thugs can work.

Yes, lets celebrate the victory of the Schutzstaffel reincarnated.

The Palestinians are in a difficult situation having to deal with such a hysterical opponent.

GGPViper
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26 Nov 2012, 3:56 pm

xenon13 wrote:

GGPViper wrote:

xenon13 wrote:

Hamas won the last conflict and so this shows that standing up to thugs can work.

Yes, lets celebrate the victory of the Schutzstaffel reincarnated.

The Palestinians are in a difficult situation having to deal with such a hysterical opponent.

On this we agree. Hamas is indeed a hysterical opponent.

slave
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26 Nov 2012, 4:17 pm

Seabass wrote:

John_Browning wrote:

It looked like less lethal rounds. They should have shot her in the foot or the knee and went about their business.

You're a terrible person. Seriously. But be proud, you got me to pull out an ad hominem.

are you directing a personal verbal insult and violating the TOS?

GGPViper
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26 Nov 2012, 4:22 pm

slave wrote:

Seabass wrote:

John_Browning wrote:

It looked like less lethal rounds. They should have shot her in the foot or the knee and went about their business.

You're a terrible person. Seriously. But be proud, you got me to pull out an ad hominem.

are you directing a personal verbal insult and violating the TOS?

Ok, that's you posting the same grievance two times in only 11 minutes, now.

[EDIT: Misleading comparison with Seabass removed. My apologies.]

Last edited by GGPViper on 27 Nov 2012, 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Seabass
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26 Nov 2012, 4:24 pm

GGPViper wrote:

slave wrote:

Seabass wrote:

John_Browning wrote:

It looked like less lethal rounds. They should have shot her in the foot or the knee and went about their business.

You're a terrible person. Seriously. But be proud, you got me to pull out an ad hominem.

are you directing a personal verbal insult and violating the TOS?

Ok, that's you posting the same grievance two times in only 11 minutes, now.

You two should get a room.

Stand back, he MAY be experiencing a paradigm shift and is possibly in a vulnerable position.

ScrewyWabbit
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26 Nov 2012, 4:24 pm

xenon13 wrote:

I think a big problem is that Hamas views this as a "victory". Consider this - you say the buffer zone inside Gaza was abolished, while the Israeli's do not live with a buffer zone in their country. Gaza fisherman can now also fish expanded waters, while Israeli fisherman have no limitations on the waters they can fish. The blockade on Gaza is being eased while the Israelis live under no blockade at all.

So, basically, Israeli's are living in a relative paradise while Gazans persist in much worse conditions. And while its obvious that they don't see it this way, any "victory" or better peace deal they might get down the road will be forever offset by the years of avoidable suffering that they've endured.

The bottom line is that conditions in Gaza will continue to be, for the foreseeable future, far worse than what they could have if they'd just make peace with Israel. Even if the Palestinians turned into incompetent negotiators and accepted the worst possible offer from Israel, it would be better than what they have now, by a long way.

slave
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26 Nov 2012, 4:44 pm

GGPViper wrote:

slave wrote:

Seabass wrote:

John_Browning wrote:

It looked like less lethal rounds. They should have shot her in the foot or the knee and went about their business.

You're a terrible person. Seriously. But be proud, you got me to pull out an ad hominem.

are you directing a personal verbal insult and violating the TOS?

Ok, that's you posting the same grievance two times in only 11 minutes, now.

You two should get a room.

I am merely pointing out the obvious from the TOS.
All users are subject to those rules.
This issue is not personal in anyway.

I will comment as often as I please on any topic I desire.

GGPViper
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26 Nov 2012, 4:56 pm

slave wrote:

GGPViper wrote:

slave wrote:

Seabass wrote:

John_Browning wrote:

It looked like less lethal rounds. They should have shot her in the foot or the knee and went about their business.

You're a terrible person. Seriously. But be proud, you got me to pull out an ad hominem.

are you directing a personal verbal insult and violating the TOS?

Ok, that's you posting the same grievance two times in only 11 minutes, now.

I am merely pointing out the obvious from the TOS.
All users are subject to those rules.
This issue is not personal in anyway.

I will comment as often as I please on any topic I desire.

And yet you are threatening others not to do the same by claiming TOS violations due to posts that many others wouldn't even bother considering offensive.

Crybaby.

Yes. That is a personal attack. You should report me in this thread right away.
https://www.wrongplanet.net/postt215959.html

[EDIT: Misleading comparison with Seabass removed. My apologies.]

Last edited by GGPViper on 27 Nov 2012, 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tequila
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26 Nov 2012, 4:59 pm

ScrewyWabbit wrote:

xenon13 wrote:

Exactly. Peace with Israel would be better for everyone and for no-one more than the Palestinians themselves (they've been offered that since 1948). They would have good homes, good jobs, full amenities, a free press, good government - basically everything that's on offer in Israel would be available to them at the touch of a button. Gaza could be the tourist hotspot of the Middle East, and it could so easily thrive if it chose to throw off the suffocating nature of Islam and bring in a secular, liberal government and constitution cognisant with the change in the hopes, dreams and minds of the people.

The Israeli government and her people will do well as they won't have to fight against a war of annihilation either.

The only people who really lose are far-left sympathisers of terrorism, the gullible Western media who report as fact whatever the Palestinian terrorist group of the week wants 'em to report, brainwashed Islamist jihadi 'martyrs' and those people bathed in hate from day one, corrupt Palestinian officials and the Arab governments who simply won't have any excuse for treating their people so badly.

thomas81
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26 Nov 2012, 5:08 pm

GGPViper wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

xenon13 wrote:

Hamas won the last conflict and so this shows that standing up to thugs can work.

I'm less convinced that Hamas are capable of leading Palestinians to liberation.

Working class Palestinians need to build bridges with working class Jews and collectively overthrow the ruling classes on both sides. Hamas represents a small band of theocrats that wants religiosity, intimidation and hatred to trump equality, democracy and secularism.

Good luck applying an 18th century concept of "class" to disputes that go back at least 1,380 years.

Christianity has internal misunderstandings stemming back to the Roman empire, yet its nations work through them.

GGPViper wrote:

I do not recall Likud and their IDF bootboys having a plan to kill up to 1.65 billion Muslims.

Hamas does not have a 'plan'. All it has is hot air and a lot of innaccurate, pitiful rockets.

Hamas has a plan in as far as provoking further Israeli attacks to mantain continued support for their administration.

thomas81
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26 Nov 2012, 5:17 pm

Tequila wrote:

ScrewyWabbit wrote:

xenon13 wrote:

Okay, well answer this -

Palestinians including moderates, have a lot of valid concerns about a dual state solution. The main one is that Israel is only interested in a Palestinian state in as far as that it would be politically and economically subservient to a more powerful Israel. In much the same way as the relationship between Mexico and the United States. It would be readilly exploited as a source of cheap labour and a way in which Israeli companies can continue extorting for utilities and provisions.

What is needed is a single state solution where the national identities and cultures of both sides are amalgamated, respected under a single government that represents both sides to an equal extent.

GGPViper
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26 Nov 2012, 5:27 pm

thomas81 wrote:

GGPViper wrote:

I do not recall Likud and their IDF bootboys having a plan to kill up to 1.65 billion Muslims.

Once again, you demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding of the predominance of anti-Semitism in Islamic scripture. Hamas *does* have a plan to kill all Jews.

I could link back to my previous descriptions of Islamic scripture, but Tequila recently posted the best account of the motivations of Hamas I have ever encountered... delivered in less than 6 minutes. So I won't bore you with lengthy and obscure academic quotes, as they reach the same conclusion as Pat himself.

https://www.wrongplanet.net/postt216378.html

thomas81
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26 Nov 2012, 5:30 pm

GGPViper wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

GGPViper wrote:

I do not recall Likud and their IDF bootboys having a plan to kill up to 1.65 billion Muslims.

Scripture isn't a plan. Its religious rhetoric, and a desire at best.

Hamas is not equivalent to the third reich. It does not have the means, military, economics, political werewithal or infrastructure to attempt a 'second holocaust'. Trying to insinuate otherwise is just incoherent, hysterical, reactionary babble.

If Hitler could not successfully exterminate an unarmed, malnourished, starving jewish civillian populace with a fully equipped army that is the envy of the world, what chance does Hamas stand with poorly equipped, poorly trained ,rag tag paramilitaries against a military world class power with state of the art weapons?

Last edited by thomas81 on 26 Nov 2012, 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

GGPViper
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26 Nov 2012, 5:31 pm

thomas81 wrote:

Tequila wrote:

ScrewyWabbit wrote:

xenon13 wrote:

Okay, well answer this -

Palestinians including moderates, have a lot of valid concerns about a dual state solution. The main one is that Israel is only interested in a Palestinian state in as far as that it would be politically and economically subservient to a more powerful Israel. In much the same way as the relationship between Mexico and the United States. It would be readily exploited as a source of cheap labour and a way in which Israeli companies can continue extorting for utilities and provisions.

You really need to stop imposing your outdated Marxist beliefs on *every* problem on the planet Earth.

thomas81 wrote:

What is needed is a single state solution where the national identities and cultures of both sides are amalgamated, respected under a single government that represents both sides to an equal extent.

This scenario is not even remotely realistic as long as Hamas exists.

thomas81
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26 Nov 2012, 5:36 pm

GGPViper wrote:

You really need to stop imposing your outdated Marxist beliefs on *every* problem on the planet Earth.

Strawman.

thomas81 wrote:

This scenario is not even remotely realistic as long as Hamas exists.

A scenario where Palestinians glibly accept peace under any terms thrown out by Israel is equally remotely unrealistic.

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