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Kraichgauer
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08 Dec 2012, 9:24 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Then let there be jobs. In inner cities, there isn't nearly enough employment opportunities, and the people lack vehicular means of seeking employment outside their neighborhoods. On top of that, so called job creators outsource work to cheaper job markets under the pretext that Americans want too much pay and benefits - the very nerve of the workers! Bring back jobs and the opportunity to find a job, then we can seriously talk about people buying their own cell phones.
And that doesn't even address people on disability who are often parents, or have other loved ones they are concerned about.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


If American workers were permitted to work for 200 rupees a week like in India they would have all the jobs they wanted.

American labor has priced itself out of the market has been priced out by the government with their infernal minimum wage rules.

Anything will sell if the price is right, including American labor.

ruveyn


Androbot2084 took the words right out of my mouth.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ruveyn
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08 Dec 2012, 9:33 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Then let there be jobs. In inner cities, there isn't nearly enough employment opportunities, and the people lack vehicular means of seeking employment outside their neighborhoods. On top of that, so called job creators outsource work to cheaper job markets under the pretext that Americans want too much pay and benefits - the very nerve of the workers! Bring back jobs and the opportunity to find a job, then we can seriously talk about people buying their own cell phones.
And that doesn't even address people on disability who are often parents, or have other loved ones they are concerned about.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


If American workers were permitted to work for 200 rupees a week like in India they would have all the jobs they wanted.

American labor has priced itself out of the market has been priced out by the government with their infernal minimum wage rules.

Anything will sell if the price is right, including American labor.

ruveyn


Androbot2084 took the words right out of my mouth.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Prices of basic goods would be reduced to match the wage levels. american goods sold right well to american prior to the labor unions.

ruveyn



marshall
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08 Dec 2012, 9:45 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Then let there be jobs. In inner cities, there isn't nearly enough employment opportunities, and the people lack vehicular means of seeking employment outside their neighborhoods. On top of that, so called job creators outsource work to cheaper job markets under the pretext that Americans want too much pay and benefits - the very nerve of the workers! Bring back jobs and the opportunity to find a job, then we can seriously talk about people buying their own cell phones.
And that doesn't even address people on disability who are often parents, or have other loved ones they are concerned about.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


If American workers were permitted to work for 200 rupees a week like in India they would have all the jobs they wanted.

American labor has priced itself out of the market has been priced out by the government with their infernal minimum wage rules.

Anything will sell if the price is right, including American labor.

ruveyn


Yes, future generations of Americans should have to live in cardboard boxes so we can compete with wage-slave sweatshops in Bangladesh. That's the ticket to prosperity. :roll:

I have a better idea. Tell the corporations they must pay high enough wages so that their workers can afford to buy the products they produce no matter where they decide to set up their factories. If they refuse impose a 50% sales tax on any American who wants to buy their stock and a 10% wealth tax on all members of the company board of directors who are American citizens. America was self-sufficient in the 1950s and even lowly factory workers had decent enough wages to eventually be able to own their own home. The workforce was also smaller as fewer women worked. It's not impossible. The problem is greed.



Last edited by marshall on 08 Dec 2012, 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AspieOtaku
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08 Dec 2012, 9:46 pm

marshall wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
THAT.........IS......AWESOME!! !! ! :wtg: :dj:

I like this one too...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AZNb-UpwNU[/youtube]
Hell yeah sign her up with Geffin records!! :dj: :dj: :bball: :bball:


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marshall
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08 Dec 2012, 9:54 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Prices of basic goods would be reduced to match the wage levels. american goods sold right well to american prior to the labor unions.

ruveyn


Look up what happened to Chile when Milton Friedman's goons took away the minimum wage with the barrel of a gun. For the poor, unemployment actually rose, believe it or not, even as wages fell and hours worked per employee rose.

Also, prior to labor unions there was no middle class and most people still worked on farms.



ruveyn
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08 Dec 2012, 9:56 pm

marshall wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Prices of basic goods would be reduced to match the wage levels. american goods sold right well to american prior to the labor unions.

ruveyn


Look up what happened to Chile when Milton Friedman's goons took away the minimum wage with the barrel of a gun. For the poor, unemployment actually rose, believe it or not, even as wages fell and hours worked per employee rose.

Also, prior to labor unions there was no middle class and most people still worked on farms.


Not true in the northeast where the textile mills ran three shifts a day. Laborers did not starve. They didn't live all that well but they did not starve either.

ruveynh



marshall
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08 Dec 2012, 10:07 pm

ruveyn wrote:
marshall wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Prices of basic goods would be reduced to match the wage levels. american goods sold right well to american prior to the labor unions.

ruveyn


Look up what happened to Chile when Milton Friedman's goons took away the minimum wage with the barrel of a gun. For the poor, unemployment actually rose, believe it or not, even as wages fell and hours worked per employee rose.

Also, prior to labor unions there was no middle class and most people still worked on farms.


Not true in the northeast where the textile mills ran three shifts a day. Laborers did not starve. They didn't live all that well but they did not starve either.

ruveynh


The race to the bottom is entirely unnecessary. It is a choice. We don't have a scarcity problem. There is no great famine around the corner. The problem is entirely structural.



Kraichgauer
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08 Dec 2012, 10:32 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Then let there be jobs. In inner cities, there isn't nearly enough employment opportunities, and the people lack vehicular means of seeking employment outside their neighborhoods. On top of that, so called job creators outsource work to cheaper job markets under the pretext that Americans want too much pay and benefits - the very nerve of the workers! Bring back jobs and the opportunity to find a job, then we can seriously talk about people buying their own cell phones.
And that doesn't even address people on disability who are often parents, or have other loved ones they are concerned about.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


If American workers were permitted to work for 200 rupees a week like in India they would have all the jobs they wanted.

American labor has priced itself out of the market has been priced out by the government with their infernal minimum wage rules.

Anything will sell if the price is right, including American labor.

ruveyn


Androbot2084 took the words right out of my mouth.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Prices of basic goods would be reduced to match the wage levels. american goods sold right well to american prior to the labor unions.

ruveyn


But would they seriously be reduced? I think not, as American industries would argue that the government has no right to fix prices. Plus, with the global market, and the lack of patriotism among today's wealthy, there is no need in their eyes to adjust the market for American buyers.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ruveyn
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09 Dec 2012, 9:24 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

But would they seriously be reduced? I think not, as American industries would argue that the government has no right to fix prices. Plus, with the global market, and the lack of patriotism among today's wealthy, there is no need in their eyes to adjust the market for American buyers.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Supply and demand, my son. The price has to be low enough so enough people can buy the product.

If a product sits in the warehouse long enough, its owner will reduce the price just to get it out of the way.

ruveyn



Kraichgauer
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09 Dec 2012, 12:04 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

But would they seriously be reduced? I think not, as American industries would argue that the government has no right to fix prices. Plus, with the global market, and the lack of patriotism among today's wealthy, there is no need in their eyes to adjust the market for American buyers.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Supply and demand, my son. The price has to be low enough so enough people can buy the product.

If a product sits in the warehouse long enough, its owner will reduce the price just to get it out of the way.

ruveyn


Perhaps. Or they could get the notion they only have to sell their products overseas.
I'm not one to have much faith in the much deified market; not when greed is such a motivator for big business.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



marshall
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09 Dec 2012, 2:51 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

But would they seriously be reduced? I think not, as American industries would argue that the government has no right to fix prices. Plus, with the global market, and the lack of patriotism among today's wealthy, there is no need in their eyes to adjust the market for American buyers.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Supply and demand, my son. The price has to be low enough so enough people can buy the product.

If a product sits in the warehouse long enough, its owner will reduce the price just to get it out of the way.

ruveyn


Maybe they would prefer to cut back on production and only sell to the wealthy.



Kraichgauer
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09 Dec 2012, 3:24 pm

marshall wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

But would they seriously be reduced? I think not, as American industries would argue that the government has no right to fix prices. Plus, with the global market, and the lack of patriotism among today's wealthy, there is no need in their eyes to adjust the market for American buyers.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Supply and demand, my son. The price has to be low enough so enough people can buy the product.

If a product sits in the warehouse long enough, its owner will reduce the price just to get it out of the way.

ruveyn


Maybe they would prefer to cut back on production and only sell to the wealthy.


That's what I believe was the case prior to the rise of the American middle class.
Incidentally, I'm surprised no one has taken me to task yet for the accusation of lack of patriotism among the super wealthy American businessmen.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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09 Dec 2012, 3:43 pm

If we actually had honest money then lower wages wouldn't be a problem. The dollar has lost 97% of its value since 1913.

You can't force increases in wages, it only inflates prices and gives disincentive to hire lower skilled workers and cuts them out of the employment ladder all together. Nobody is going to pay somebody who's labor is only worth $5 an hour $10 an hour. If you raise minimum wage what do you think happens to purchasing power of somebody making $10? And those people cut out of the employment ladder are supported by someone, so money employed people make which is worth less now has to go to these dependents.



androbot2084
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09 Dec 2012, 4:38 pm

Paper money is as good as gold.



marshall
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09 Dec 2012, 7:52 pm

Jacoby wrote:
If we actually had honest money then lower wages wouldn't be a problem. The dollar has lost 97% of its value since 1913.

You can't force increases in wages, it only inflates prices and gives disincentive to hire lower skilled workers and cuts them out of the employment ladder all together. Nobody is going to pay somebody who's labor is only worth $5 an hour $10 an hour. If you raise minimum wage what do you think happens to purchasing power of somebody making $10? And those people cut out of the employment ladder are supported by someone, so money employed people make which is worth less now has to go to these dependents.


You've gotten the cause-and-effect completely backwards. Raising the minimum wage doesn't cause inflation. Increasing the money supply faster than the real rate of economic growth leads to inflation. Only a central bank can cause inflation.

The worst thing raising the minimum wage can do is increase unemployment.

I also object to the idea that a wage reflects the objective worth of what a lower skilled worker provides.



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09 Dec 2012, 10:15 pm

marshall wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
If we actually had honest money then lower wages wouldn't be a problem. The dollar has lost 97% of its value since 1913.

You can't force increases in wages, it only inflates prices and gives disincentive to hire lower skilled workers and cuts them out of the employment ladder all together. Nobody is going to pay somebody who's labor is only worth $5 an hour $10 an hour. If you raise minimum wage what do you think happens to purchasing power of somebody making $10? And those people cut out of the employment ladder are supported by someone, so money employed people make which is worth less now has to go to these dependents.


You've gotten the cause-and-effect completely backwards. Raising the minimum wage doesn't cause inflation. Increasing the money supply faster than the real rate of economic growth leads to inflation. Only a central bank can cause inflation.

The worst thing raising the minimum wage can do is increase unemployment.

I also object to the idea that a wage reflects the objective worth of what a lower skilled worker provides.


It can contributes to the inflation of prices, it's not the main cause of it now obviously since the minimum wage isn't that high and the amount of people actually making minimum wage is something like less than 3%. Higher cost of labor will result in higher prices tho, it's a fairly simple concept. You seem the understand how it creates higher unemployment and I would assume you understand why you can't just raise wages to like $80 an hour, so why do you still support minimum wage? Minimum wage laws do help cover up the the real damage our inflationary monetary has done I guess, wages actually haven't increased at the rate of inflation.

And I'm not sure what you're objecting to on that last part, I don't understand what you are implying by that.