Correlation between AS and religion/atheism or no?

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NAKnight
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20 Dec 2012, 11:08 pm

MCalavera wrote:
You're taking some members' atheism quite personally. Bad experience in your life?


It really doesn't matter what my experience with Atheism is. I'm asking for your response.
I'm a person searching for satisfying answers and meaning, if me drilling you for those is endangering you, I'm not sorry. I don't take other's member's beliefs personally.
I just want to see why/how you believe what you do, that is all. Is that not an unreasonable request?

And with that, I'm going to Leave Wrong Planet.


Best Regards,

Jake


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MCalavera
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20 Dec 2012, 11:27 pm

NAKnight wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
You're taking some members' atheism quite personally. Bad experience in your life?


It really doesn't matter what my experience with Atheism is. I'm asking for your response.
I'm a person searching for satisfying answers and meaning, if me drilling you for those is endangering you, I'm not sorry. I don't take other's member's beliefs personally.
I just want to see why/how you believe what you do, that is all. Is that not an unreasonable request?

And with that, I'm going to Leave Wrong Planet.


Best Regards,

Jake


Actions speak louder than words.



ValentineWiggin
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21 Dec 2012, 5:37 am

0_equals_true wrote:
No I don't think there is a firm correlation, in fact you can just as well have ultra-orthodox on the spectrum.

Correlation =/= mutual inclusivity
0_equals_true wrote:
"This fallacy based on the idea that ASD people are more rational, but really this is fallacy in it own right. Even if some are, that doesn't preclude Cognitive dissonance.

The untruth of a posited fact is not a "fallacy".
Of course, we're not dealing with an untruth- ASD peeps ARE more rational, and this tendency is recognized in clinical studies as well as support networks
0_equals_true wrote:
The idea of atheism being the default position is an interesting question. Of course a religion itself is taught, but research does indicate there may be a neurological basis for this sort of superstitious thinking, suspending disbelief, etc.

Yes, it makes evolutionary sense in a pre-modern world to ascribe intent and purpose to even natural events, lest one not recognize a potentially-dangerous situation and die as a result, in the same way that human bodies are "designed" via evolution to store calories as fat in case of famine. We are likewise no more religious "by default" than we are fat by "default". These are products of survival-based mechanisms combined with modern culture.
0_equals_true wrote:
It is important to note that this subjective, and creating part of the brain performs an important function in regulating the more rational/analytical side.

I should think "regulation" would be done by neurological processes LESS concerned with the subjective.
0_equals_true wrote:
There is just differences in how and the extent it is used. Brain damaged individuals who are-missing this function they have huge difficulty making up their mind, as their thinking is like a run away train. Without subjective decisions you cannot break out of analytical thinking.

False dichotomy- it's only decisions which have no objective guideline which even REQUIRE analysis.
0_equals_true wrote:
When a scientist writes a report they are choosing how to summarize and conclude, they have decided when to suspend the experiment, etc.

...what?
0_equals_true wrote:
It is not a purely logical and objective process, though they have to be reasonably objective in how they conduct themselves.

Um...data interpretation- margin of error, statistical significance, etc, are all pretty straight forward.
0_equals_true wrote:
Of the people I have met on the spectrum only a small number show obvious aptitude for many layers of deductive thinking, In other words some are analytical, some are hyper-analytical, and some are not very analytical at all.

The question is of a correlation- it matters not whether the MAJORITY of Autistics are analytical, merely that a statistically-greater higher portion of them are than their NT COUNTERPARTS.
0_equals_true wrote:
From my own observations, people can believe because they want to believe. In that they have have an emotional gap that is easily filled with religion or similar, where as atheism doesn't give them that ease they need. It is very easy if you don't have such personality to think it odd.

It is! I've tried and tried my best to understand, but I simply cannot. There are a great number of fantastical things I'd LOVE to believe were true, but I can't for the life of me grasp how that translates into actually believing in them...


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Janissy
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21 Dec 2012, 10:35 am

The_Walrus wrote:
SanityTheorist wrote:

Worth noting that the thrust of that article is that autistic people are less likely to identify in a personal God who has a human-like mind. They aren't more likely to not believe in any God at all.


It's also worth noting that one of the research papers that this article was based on got its data by analyzing posts in WP's PPR forum.



NAKnight
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21 Dec 2012, 11:30 pm

MCalavera wrote:
Actions speak louder than words.


Don't go there.


Best Regards,

Jake


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MCalavera
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22 Dec 2012, 12:10 am

NAKnight wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
Actions speak louder than words.


Don't go there.


Best Regards,

Jake


Didn't you say you that you were leaving?



NAKnight
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22 Dec 2012, 1:34 am

MCalavera wrote:
Didn't you say you that you were leaving?


As a matter of fact I am. I have better things to do than compete in online discussions.
I appreciate the company while It lasted.

Best Regards,

Jake


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Kait
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26 Dec 2012, 3:35 pm

I read somewhere that us aspies were more likely to be athiest, since we think more logically than NT's are supposed to. But I'm not sure how true that is. Personally, I don't see any correlation. I know aspies who are athiest, and I know aspies who are religious. Whatever


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Touretter
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27 Dec 2012, 2:19 pm

I tend to think that ,in general at least, we aspies are critical, and analytical. So therefore we are less inclined to accept a given religion at face value, out of blind faith. As for me personally, as I've posted different times in threads in this part of the forum, my views have evolved over the years, as I've grown, and gotten different perspective. From the time I was a teenager, through my adult years, my views have ranged from Abrahamic monotheism to implicit atheism. But currently I take the position of agnostic theistic rationalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_theism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_rationalism. I find it to be an acceptable middle ground between my past atheism, and monotheism, as it counter balances the faith in a singular divine being, with free thought. It appeals, and makes the best sense, to me anyway.



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27 Dec 2012, 6:54 pm

I am a very strongly convicted Christian Fundamentalist. I also have every reason to believe I am an aspie despite not being formally diagnosed.

I can see why aspies would have a hard time believing in God. I still struggle with resolving certain scriptures due to my extreme analysis of every word I read. But I have a harder time understanding how anyone can believe in Evolution- as it seems to take way more faith (so many missing pieces). Or even agnosticism or universalism for that matter (if there is God is he that weak or unconcerned in His creation that He couldn't/wouldn't tell us EXACTLY who He is?)

But in conclusion I think aspies would either be complete evolutionists or very devout to the letter of their faith- can;t see where a middle ground could be seen.



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27 Dec 2012, 7:04 pm

beakybird wrote:
But I have a harder time understanding how anyone can believe in Evolution- as it seems to take way more faith (so many missing pieces).


Evolution is not something to be believed, it is a fact. What are these missing pieces you speak of? Creationism has long since been debunked as myth.


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NAKnight
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27 Dec 2012, 7:21 pm

TallyMan wrote:
beakybird wrote:
But I have a harder time understanding how anyone can believe in Evolution- as it seems to take way more faith (so many missing pieces).


Evolution is not something to be believed, it is a fact. What are these missing pieces you speak of? Creationism has long since been debunked as myth.


TallyMan wrote:
it is a fact.


It's funny to hear you say that, you denounce Absolute Certainties but you claim an absolute Certainty.


Evolution is shuffling a deck of cards to a rookie poker player, it is solely based upon chance and natural selection.
Creation is teleological, it has a beginning, middle and end.

Best Regards,

Jake


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27 Dec 2012, 7:23 pm

TallyMan wrote:
beakybird wrote:
But I have a harder time understanding how anyone can believe in Evolution- as it seems to take way more faith (so many missing pieces).


Evolution is not something to be believed, it is a fact. What are these missing pieces you speak of? Creationism has long since been debunked as myth.


Oh is that right? Creationism debunked huh? hat's pretty funny. Can't be done as it is the truth. However "enlighten" me who and when (this should be a laugh riot)?

Just to name a few about Evolutionism;

Where did the initial elements come from that caused the original "ooze" from which every living thing supposedly came? Deep space? Doesn't answer the question.

If random genetic mutations caused different species to be created and subsequently proliferate, why do moneys not occasionally spit out a human or reptile occasionally spit out a bird from its egg?

What caused cells to decide to get together to form larger organisms? By what process did they supposedly learn to be different organs functioning together to form complex life?

Why would perfectly functioning life forms even do such a thing? Survival? Bacteria and other one celled organisms seem to be getting along just fine without having to form alliances with one another.

How about genders? If cells got along fine by splitting themselves why be male and female? I guess it's a good thing that the male random genetic mutation and the female genetic mutation happened at the same time on the same part of the Earth or we may not have male and female creatures.

What about plant life? Can't see how any of the Theory of Evolution even pertains to them. No such thing as survival of the fittest when there's no competition.


Furthermore, even if you do believe that nonsense, you fail to realize that you are still putting your faith in something. Fact is subjective really. You are believing the research of scientists and what they've published in their books. Except they change constantly/.



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27 Dec 2012, 7:28 pm

NAKnight wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
beakybird wrote:
But I have a harder time understanding how anyone can believe in Evolution- as it seems to take way more faith (so many missing pieces).


Evolution is not something to be believed, it is a fact. What are these missing pieces you speak of? Creationism has long since been debunked as myth.


TallyMan wrote:
it is a fact.


It's funny to hear you say that, you denounce Absolute Certainties but you claim an absolute Certainty.


Evolution is shuffling a deck of cards to a rookie poker player, it is solely based upon chance and natural selection.
Creation is teleological, it has a beginning, middle and end.

Best Regards,

Jake


And yet, evolution is a fact. It is extremely well documented and it is happening and has been happening for many millions of years. It you chose to believe otherwise it is wilful self-delusion or ignorance. It still amazes me that there are parts of America stuck in the dark ages and hanging on to their primitive creationism beliefs despite evolution being an established fact. Even the Catholic church acknowledges evolution as a fact and that biblical creation is merely fable and myth. If you are so ignorant of science, nature and reality I see no point in discussing your illusions / self-delusion further.


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27 Dec 2012, 7:32 pm

beakybird wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
beakybird wrote:
But I have a harder time understanding how anyone can believe in Evolution- as it seems to take way more faith (so many missing pieces).


Evolution is not something to be believed, it is a fact. What are these missing pieces you speak of? Creationism has long since been debunked as myth.


Oh is that right? Creationism debunked huh? hat's pretty funny. Can't be done as it is the truth. However "enlighten" me who and when (this should be a laugh riot)?

Just to name a few about Evolutionism;

Where did the initial elements come from that caused the original "ooze" from which every living thing supposedly came? Deep space? Doesn't answer the question.

If random genetic mutations caused different species to be created and subsequently proliferate, why do moneys not occasionally spit out a human or reptile occasionally spit out a bird from its egg?

What caused cells to decide to get together to form larger organisms? By what process did they supposedly learn to be different organs functioning together to form complex life?

Why would perfectly functioning life forms even do such a thing? Survival? Bacteria and other one celled organisms seem to be getting along just fine without having to form alliances with one another.

How about genders? If cells got along fine by splitting themselves why be male and female? I guess it's a good thing that the male random genetic mutation and the female genetic mutation happened at the same time on the same part of the Earth or we may not have male and female creatures.

What about plant life? Can't see how any of the Theory of Evolution even pertains to them. No such thing as survival of the fittest when there's no competition.


Furthermore, even if you do believe that nonsense, you fail to realize that you are still putting your faith in something. Fact is subjective really. You are believing the research of scientists and what they've published in their books. Except they change constantly/.


Total and utter BS. I suggest you learn a little about science, nature and evolution, preferably not from a child's comic or creationist propaganda site. I've seen the arguments you list above before and frankly they are rubbish and just show how ignorant you are of the subject. That is all I'm saying for tonight, I'm off to bed now. G'night.


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NAKnight
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27 Dec 2012, 7:43 pm

TallyMan wrote:
And yet, evolution is a fact. It is extremely well documented and it is happening and has been happening for many millions of years. It you chose to believe otherwise it is wilful self-delusion or ignorance.


You talk about having scientific background and seeing all sides of the issue and making a deductive reasoning claim. But when I offer a different view (As opposed to agreeing with yours) You result calling me delusional and ignorant. Do you want to hear opposing views or not?

Best Regards,

Jake


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