Three-state solution?

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Attempting is not succeeding. There are more Kurds now than there were when Hussein was gassing them.

ruveyn

so failure justifies it?

You may recall Hitler 'failed' to exterminate the Jews.

Anyone support this?

Under this plan:

Israel would continue to exist.
The Arab parts of Judea and Samaria would become part of Jordan, and the Jordanians would be handed back some - but not all - of what they had conquered in 1948.
All of Gaza would become part of Egypt.

What does everyone think? I think it's the solution that is staring us in the face, but no-one is serious enough about letting it happen.

Jordan is already the Palestinian state, in essence, as most of its population is Palestinian and the culture of Arab parts of the West Bank and Palestinian Jordanians is largely identical.
Gaza would unite with Egypt, which they also have a lot more in common with.

It can defuse and detoxify the lethal anti-Israel nature of the Palestinian 'national cause', and it would allow their people to be looked after, probably in worse conditions (but they don't seem to care about that) by their Arab brethren. Also, the two Arab countries are a little bit less quick to murderous terrorist attacks than the Palestinians.

What do we think?

Nothing justifies what Hussein did. And nothing justifies the way you butcher, twist and mangle words either.

You are an anti-semite and you will strain to bring forth a gnat of hatred of Israel and Jews.

ruveyn

The "problem" with your idea is that it exposes the great lie of this whole situation - namely that there has never been a Palestine, Israel did not "steal" land from Palestine or the Palestinians, and that Israel in fact conquered parts of Jordan and Egypt. Jordan and especially Egypt had, and continue to have, as much real love for the Palestinians as the Turks and Iraqis have for the Kurds, and want nothing to do with them. The Palestinians aren't exactly looking to be part of Jordan and Egypt either. But its been easier for all of them to just blame Israel this whole time, as if had Israel only not conquered these lands and the previous status quo had remained, everything would have been just wonderful. Of course, I guess since the Palestinians were never that vocal about their own independence until they found themselves living under Israeli occupation instead of Jordanian and Egyption occupation, maybe everything would have just been wonderful. But that doesn't mean they'd want to go back to that situation now.

Because they are an unruly and irrational lot. As an Israeli minister once said, the Palestinians never waste an opportunity to waste an opportunity. When the Palestinians regain their reason (if they ever regain their reason) then maybe they will be heeded.

ruveyn

And an earlier Israeli prime minister said that had he been a Palestinian he would not want peace nor Israel because they had their country stolen from them and a later Israeli prime minister said that had he been a Palestinian he would be a "terrorist".

the fallacy in your logic here is that if you are going to argue the Palestinians should have no state because they have 'never had a state' then precisely the same could have been argued against Israel up unto 1946. I'm well acquainted with this line of argument, its the precise same logic levied against the case for a United Ireland here in the British Isles.

What you, Tequila, Ruveyn and your fellow Zionists are doing is distorting historical semantics to legitimise anti arab racism and erasing a self identifying group who have as much right to a country as anyone else.

The Palestinians first tried to seize the parcel that Jews bought (legally at the time) from the Ottoman Empire. They paid hard cash in gold for it.

The Palestinians and their Arab speaking buddies made war on the Jews and they LOST!

When you lose a war you lose your land. Sorry. Those are the rules. To the victors to the spoils of war. If the Palestinians had been sane and set out to live in peace with the Jews on their modest parcel there would not have been a war, and probably not a State of Israel. The Palestinian brought the thunder down on their own heads.

ruveyn

The Palestinians first tried to seize the parcel that Jews bought (legally at the time) from the Ottoman Empire. They paid hard cash in gold for it.

Most people seem to forget this. They also forget that while a lot of this land was owned by wealthy Arabs (before the Jews bought it) no Arabs were living on it. It was uncultivated and not fit to live on-nothing would grow on it -parts of it were swampland like the Negev desert-which is a relatively large expanse of land. The Jews came and cultivated the land and then it could be lived on and fought over. I'm not saying this was the case for all of Israel but large parts of it.

The Palestinians and their Arab speaking buddies made war on the Jews and they LOST!

They forget this too.If you call for a holy war on a people and call for them to be annihilated by all the countries surrounding said group of people you are starting a war with them. A lot of the land that was taken from the arabs during the war was used to put Israeli settlements under siege and starve them out or as a point to attack them from (e.g the west bank). If you use land for this purpose during a war and then the other side -the people you're attacking come and take the land from you, well....

When you lose a war you lose your land. Sorry. Those are the rules. To the victors to the spoils of war. If the Palestinians had been sane and set out to live in peace with the Jews on their modest parcel there would not have been a war, and probably not a State of Israel. The Palestinian brought the thunder down on their own heads.

Yeah.

Is it racist to criticise the Palestinians as the world's most tiresome crybabies with a bogus cause and a plight that's entirely self-inflicted? I bet it is. I wouldn't be surprised if it was against the law in certain European countries. But I'm going to do it anyway because somebody has to. And I realise I'll probably lose a few friends with this video, but that's OK. Friends like that I can do without.

All any of us can do is to tell the truth as we see it. I mean as we actually see it, and not as we think we're supposed to see it. The worst thing you can do is to see the truth and to tell a lie, and I see the Palestinian cause as a lie. A lie designed to exploit western liberal guilt like the lie of Islamophobia and the lie of the mythical religion of peace that nobody has ever seen in action.

I used to be a lot more critical of Israel, and I used to believe there was a fairly simple two state solution because I used to believe the Arabs were acting in good faith. I still want to believe that, but the evidence tells me I'd be a fool to believe it because I've seen that every concession that Israel makes is met with more demands and more excuses not to negotiate. They could have had peace ten times over if they wanted it, but they don't want peace, they want victory, and they won't be happy until Israel is wiped from the map. A member of Fatah's central committee said as much on television recently, but, as he said, they keep that to themselves and tell the rest of the world a different story. And, as part of that story, the bogus claim for Palestinian statehood is currently passing through the United Nations, and we're all waiting to see what plops out the other end. Not that is really matters, because, despite what the Palestinian public relations industry (i.e. the western media) might tell you, this is not about territory and it certainly isn't about justice or human rights because Arab societies don't know the meaning of those words. It's about Jew hatred as mandated by the Koran and as preached in the mosques and taught to the children in Arab countries day in and day out, generation after poisoned generation. The Arabs don't hate Jews because of Israel. They hate Israel because of Jews.

The situation in the West Bank and Gaza exists because 45 years ago several Arab countries attacked Israel unprovoked with overwhelming odds, because it was a Jewish state. If it hadn't been a Jewish state, they wouldn't have attacked it. And they attacked with the intention of wiping it from the map and of committing genocide, but they failed because the Jews had a bit more steel in their blood than the Arabs had bargained for. And who could be surprised after what they had been through, and after seeing how the rest of the world had responded to their plight? Large numbers of Jews could have escaped the Nazis if they'd had somewhere else to go, but other countries wouldn't let them in. The Mufti of Jerusalem at the time was a friend of Hitler's, and, good Muslim that he was, he approved of the final solution and had plans for his own holocaust in the Middle East once the Nazis had won the war. So who can blame the Israelis today for defending themselves as if they mean it when they're dealing with people they know they can't trust and who they know hate them enough to want to exterminate them as a people? Anybody else in their situation would behave the same way. I know I would, and I wouldn't apologise for it.

Israel is surrounded by enemies. Peace is more in their interest than in anyone else's, which is why they keep making concessions. But it's NOT in the interest of the Palestinian leadership. Peace is the last thing they want. They need to keep the pot boiling. They need to keep their people angry and resentful and hating Jews. Peace would ruin everything, because they won't be happy until Israel is wiped from the map and the Jews have been driven into the sea. If they really believe that's going to happen they're insane. And if they don't really believe it, they're even more insane, wouldn't you say?

And all you good-hearted western liberals who keep banging the drum for the Poor Palestinians, I sympathise with you because you're doing it for the right reason, but you're being used and exploited, just as the people in the West Bank and Gaza are being exploited, by people who have no intention of negotiating peace because they're driven primarily by crude, irrational, religious hatred. When you protest for Palestine you know you'll be in the company of people calling for Jews to be gassed. Do you think that's an accident? You're dealing with something here beyond politics and beyond reason. Something truly ugly that drives a spike through all your cosy left/right assumptions, and your naivete is helping to stoke it like bellows to a fire.

The world needs to stop pretending that Palestine is about justice and human rights, and have the moral courage to call this thing what it is, to put a stop to this charade, this endless dance around a non-existent negotiating table. We need to do the Arabs a huge favour and tell them the truth they so badly need to hear, that their hatred is the cause of their misery. They've become prisoners of it. It has come to define their very identity. And, until they can find a way to remove this ugly stain from their hearts, they'll always be chained to it, and they and their children will never be free, Arab spring or no Arab spring. Peace. How many wasted generations of hate do you think it will take?

But I am not arguing that the Palestinians should not have a state. If you read my whole post, I said that Israel should return Gaza to Egypt, the West Bank to Jordan

(which would restore the status quo before Israel conquered these lands) and then let Jordan and Egypt create a new state of Palestine if they chose to do so.

Oh, and thomas81? You've done your little flag map (that you half-inched from Wikipedia) wrong. You don't want the white background on it, that area should be transparent.