do you strive to be a true christian?

Post Reply New Topic

We Lutherans believe grace is a free, unconditional gift earned for us by Christ. Where we part with evangelicals is their notion that saving faith is a choice on the part of humans. We believe our salvation is entirely in God's hands, because human beings are incapable of contributing to salvation. Faith, we believe, is part of the gift of grace, which is given to us by the Holy Spirit by the written and spoken word, and through the sacraments of the Eucharist and the Lord's Supper, which we believe are physical manifestations of the word. Hence, you're not going to hear much about born again experiences on our part, and we enthusiastically baptize infants, as we believe if God can give the gift of faith to an adult, He can also do so for a child. That faith is kept alive by means of exposure to the word and sacrament. While we don't believe good works contribute to our salvation, we feel if faith is real, it will produce a response on our part - that is, expressing our love and gratitude toward God by loving our fellow human beings.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

If by striving to be christian you mean attempting to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ as put forth in the New Testament, then I suppose I do.

I am an atheist (although there are times that I entertain the idea that I may be wrong), I strive to be a good person who passes through this world doing as little harm as possible on the way. I also follow a lot of eastern religious teachings and philosophies with following the religion itself.

The only things that I have found in common with the overwhelming majority of world religions is that somewhere buried in all the tradition, interpretation, and dogma is the underlying concept that we should all be nice to each other and not be a total d-bag.

I think Thomas Paine said it best:
"The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion."

No, I don't try to be a true Christian. I don't try to be a false Christian either.

Kraichgauer and I share a lot of the same views...only trouble I see is we disagree on some of what those crazy "Evangelicals" seem to, according to him, actually believe. If crazy evangelicals are represented by cults like Westboro, ok, then I see his point. But I belong to an evangelical denomination and I fail to see how Kraichgauer's assessment of evangelicals is accurate or even fair.

Along the lines of what Kraichgauer has said about his beliefs, I think we might find some common ground on the issue of striving to be a true Christian. Being a "true Christian" is kinda like being a "true Scotsman." Exactly what does that mean? I mean, what IS a true Christian? If that's something you can define, then maybe someone can be a true Christian.

I don't think there really is such a thing as a "true Christian." I mean, either you accept Christ as Lord and Savior or you don't. That's the beginning and end of it. Either you are a Christian or you aren't. If you ARE a Christian, by that definition you are also a true Christian. If you aren't a Christian, you aren't a Christian. Simple logic.

I think there are people going around professing to be Christian who don't rely on faith in the atoning work of Christ on the cross for their salvation. One point Kraich and I agree on is salvation lies in God's work to provide grace, i.e. there is nothing we can do to save ourselves. All we can do is trust in God's grace. I'd say that there are a number of pseudo-Christian churches and/or cults that teach a doctrine of earning salvation through being a "good person" or even belonging to the "right church" or "right denomination." Since there is only one way to salvation, through Jesus Christ, groups that teach good deeds and such to get right with God teach false doctrines and mislead their followers. It's kinda like how you can say there's such a thing as a real dollar and a fake dollar. A dollar is a dollar. There is no such thing as a "true" dollar--saying that would be redundant. Either it is or it is not. A counterfeit dollar might LOOK like a dollar, but it's still not a dollar. It's fake. I think there are a lot of people who believe they are Christians, who think their way is THE way, but in the end they are fake.

The biggest sign someone is a fake Christian is they do not actually put Jesus' teachings into practice in their lives. Now, there might be "true" Christians (in the sense they are saved through grace) who don't practice Jesus' teachings--because we are saved by grace and not by works. But people who actually BELIEVE and follow Jesus' teachings tend to actually DO what Jesus said. So even if someone claimed to be Christian and didn't live like Jesus, even if they really are saved, I'd find their testimony highly suspect. Those people could be any denomination/non-denomination/anti-organized-religion/non-religious-but-"spiritual"/whatever. I try to be slow to judge when it comes to these kinds of people because the problem isn't necessarily that they aren't CHRISTIAN but rather that they are in the process of spiritual growth. A seed doesn't look like a seedling, nor does a seedling look like a fully-grown adult plant. It takes time to figure things out.

The other sign that someone isn't a Christian is they make blatantly untrue claims. Kraich and I disagree on some finer points, but ultimately those things bear little consequence on our eternal destiny. If you think that heaven can be earned, or that God has an "organization" with exclusive access to heaven, or that "your people" are the only ones that can be saved, or that you HAVE to be a Jew first before you can follow Christ, or something else grossly heretical that interferes with an understanding of Christ as the only way to salvation, then you can call yourself whatever you want but you are NOT saved.

My definition of "Christian" is a person who trusts Christ. A person who trusts Christ completely will do what Christ taught. So, no, I can't strive to be a true Christian. Either I'm saved or I'm not.

Do I strive to follow Jesus' teachings? Yes. I fail often. I get a little better everyday. But I get a little better because God makes me better, not because of something I can do. I fail for all sorts of reasons. When I was younger I failed because my will was to do things my way rather than to seek what God wanted for me. I've learned to be more submissive to the will of God. So I fail less because of self-seeking and more because I don't always understand what it is God is trying to tell me. I understand better than I used to, and likely not as good as I will given more time and experience. The comfort is knowing that whatever I strive for, it is BECAUSE I'm saved already that I try to live like a decent human being. It doesn't matter if I fall along the way--I'm still in God's hands.

To me, one of the most inspiring stories in the NT is about Peter walking on water. I believe the Bible and that Peter really did walk on water. But I also believe that Peter's failure served/serves as a living metaphor for what so-called "true" Christians should aspire to: We get distracted and have doubts. But no matter what the failure or doubt, we still have "little faith" enough to cry out to Jesus to save us. Barring Jesus' return, we're all going to die. It doesn't matter if we walk our entire lives on the water only to be overcome by the wild waves of death. In our dying moments we can still cry out, just as Peter did beneath the waves, with the understanding that Jesus WILL rescue us and eternally preserve us from spiritual death.

Well, I guess there are evangelicals, and "crazy" evangelicals.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

I personally feel that some of the more extremist splinter groups of southern Baptist tend to get labelled as evangelicals, when they are really a poor example of the majority evangelicals. I grew up around both types, and the smaller, more fanatic types are severely outnumbered, they are just more noticeable.

neither do I

I'll ask again: Just what is a "True Christian"?

Is there even such a person?

Those sentiments pretty much sum up my opinion towards life and gods. Though as a Zen Buddhist things are slightly more complex than that (or more simple depending on your perspective).

Here is the ultimate test.

I thought Jesus told the millionaires that they need to keep their wealth and tell everyone how God blessed them because they were a tither.

That is not the Real Jesus. The is the American Jesus.

ruveyn

At one time it was fashionable for a millionaire to take a vow of poverty, sell everything and give to the poor and spend the rest of his life living on a monastery. Nowadays God wants his followers to become filthy rich.

Which God is this? I want to find Him and worship Him.

He sound like a much better God than the one who insists on righteousness.

ruveyn

It is I. By the by, you have quite of lot of tithes to catch up on.