Explaining "Privilege' to Straight White Male nerds....

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Sherlock03
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07 Nov 2013, 6:25 pm

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The Mumia Abu Jamal case says all that needs to be said about the state of racial bias in American justice.

I was on a jury for a case where a Hispanic man raped his young daughter multiple times. No one on the jury ever mentioned his race or murmured racist thoughts.

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thomas81
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07 Nov 2013, 6:27 pm

Sherlock03 wrote:

Quote:

The Mumia Abu Jamal case says all that needs to be said about the state of racial bias in American justice.

I was on a jury for a case where a Hispanic man raped his young daughter multiple times. No one on the jury ever mentioned his race or
murmured racist thoughts.

I don't know the specifics of that case but racism can and does occur anytime from the point of arrest (behaviour of the arresting police) up until the point of sentencing.

In the Abu Jamal case there was doubts as to whether the police or the court behaved in an impartial way.

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Kurgan
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07 Nov 2013, 6:30 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Kurgan wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

Can you show me this evidence and what does it prove? Last I checked there are more poor whites than there are poor blacks and Hispanics. We all have different life stories and face our own unique challenges in life. Some might be born into poverty, some may face discrimination for one reason or another, some people might grow up in abusive homes, some people may suffer from illness.

A white person in the US will have plenty of opportunities, even if he was born into a poor family. A black person will face more challenges because there is still institutional racism in the US; even though most Americans are not racists, the few who are are still numerous enough to make a significant impact. There are also all sorts of divisors that reek of white guilt (eg. Black History Month) which do nothing but promote the idea that black people are different from white people.

A whopping 27.4% of the black population lives below the poverty line, compared to just 9.9% of the white population.

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There are an infinite amount of challenges an individual can face in life no matter what race, sex, sexuality, or creed you are. Some by our own creation but most are out of our control. People that try make it into a white/black man/woman expose their own prejudices and agendas, people that do this because they need someone to blame for their own shortcomings and inadequacies in life.

How often do you see hate crimes against people because they're straight? I don't think there's ever been a case of someone being laid off for not being gay, but there are plenty of examples of gay people getting the boot because of their sexual orientation (and in many southern states, this is a perfectly valid reason for laying someone off).

What is your point? Some people face discrimination, some don't. Some people have abusive alcoholic dads too. The implication of white male privilege is that white men benefit at the expense of other peoples, which is just completely BS. I grew up in black neighborhoods and went to black schools, I was the minority most of my life. I find it pretty hard to take the assertions of lily white liberals who cry about all the injustices of the world and who is responsible for them when their first interaction with 'people of color' is college. That's a generalization and they can be hurtful by the way...

A black person is more likely to face discrimination, just like a homosexual person is. A white person with an alcoholic dad will still get plenty of opportunities once he/she moves out of this dad's house. As a white, neurotypical and straight person, it's your own fault if you live your entire life in poverty. While black people also have opportunities to make something out of their lives, the path of a black person will have more obstacles. It has nothing to do with liberals vs. conservatives (who agree on more than they disagree on), and everything to do with the fact that there are many divisors between white and black people.

In any case, as a white person, you do not know what it's like to be called racial slurs, to watch old racist cartoons still presented as cultural history or to listen to old hicks on the radio who whine about how terrible it is to have a black president (and neither do I, for that matter). South Park actually has a few episodes that explain this very well.

Sherlock03
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07 Nov 2013, 6:30 pm

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Sorry, when was the last time that someone was beaten up in the street, murdered, had abusive epithets hurled at them or fired from a job for having an 'abusive alcoholic dad'?

I think he was talking more about the long term effects of child abuse.

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thomas81
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07 Nov 2013, 6:36 pm

Sherlock03 wrote:

Quote:

Sorry, when was the last time that someone was beaten up in the street, murdered, had abusive epithets hurled at them or fired from a job for having an 'abusive alcoholic dad'?

I think he was talking more about the long term effects of child abuse.

it was irrelevant to the context though.

While it is awful to be abused, theres no such analogous social group of 'children of abusive parents' in the same way as gender, race or sexual orientation.

Children of abusive parents aren't picked upon in an institutionalised manner in the same way that minorities are. Nobody in the street is going to discriminately attack you or call you names for being one. You're not going to be refused a job for that either or be more likely to go to prison because of prejudice.

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Sherlock03
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07 Nov 2013, 6:38 pm

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Judaical corruption is not an American phenomenon, although I agree the judicial system could be improved. Europeans have a long history of racial bias in their courts, although I don't know if your jury's have the right to nullify like we do in the U.S.

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Sherlock03
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07 Nov 2013, 6:51 pm

thomas81 wrote:

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Abuse can lead to long term problems, which could eventually include losing a job.

I don't hold any animosity towards African Americans who spit on me, used racial slurs, or threw rocks at me. Nor do I hate the kids who use to beat me up because I was Catholic. They were idiots acting stupid.

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Fnord
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07 Nov 2013, 7:09 pm

Yeah ... I look at those rap thugs like P. Diddy (with his wealth, cars, clothes, bling, and girls), and celebrities like Oprah and the Obamas, and I feel privileged to be a straight white male nerd ...

:roll: Whatever ...

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Kurgan
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07 Nov 2013, 7:50 pm

Fnord wrote:

Whatever ...

Nobody said that black people were doomed to a life of poverty, but it doesn't change the fact that white people have it easier than black people. Obama is just as white as he is black, so he's not the best example out there.

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07 Nov 2013, 8:05 pm

Kurgan wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Whatever ...

Historically, and to a large extent today, in America, having any black ancestors means one is considered black, and not white. That's that old "one drop" rule, that is still informally followed today. Also, Obama put down on his 2010 Census form only that he was black.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/03/us/po ... .html?_r=0

91
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07 Nov 2013, 8:12 pm

Just go to the out parts of China for a could of weeks, the new rich will make the point better than any lecture. Get used to being unable to get a cab, being screamed at for being white. Hell even in North Korea I had to eat in a smaller dining room to the Chinese visitors (and don't try telling them, even in Mandarin that you might prefer a Chinese breakfast).I have a friend who is a Brahmin woman in a wealthy part of India, privilege barely describes her social position. Privilege is not necessary what you think it is. I worked my backside off to get into a good US Grad School and one of my very best friends is a legacy and a Turkish Muslim. Privilege is not necessary white and it is not necessary rich (although it often is). It is not 1900, the British Empire is more or less gone and privilege is still around but it is different to what it used to be.

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thomas81
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07 Nov 2013, 8:52 pm

91 wrote:

privilege is still around but it is different to what it used to be.

What hasn't changed, is that its fundamental institution and legacy hasn't stopped being wrong.

I'm glad I wasn't born into the days of slavery and indentured servitude. Nonetheless, the existing social hierarchy is nothing more than a hangover from those times. I don't care how you argue it, people don't deserve a fortuitously better lot simply for sliding out of the right vagina. Or more adversity for coming from the wrong one, for that matter.

We can't advance as a society until at the very least, gentrification, fortune by birth and institutions like monarchy are consigned to the waste basket of history. Thats why I support things like the inheritance tax, especially for these banker crooks that robbed the state during their lifetimes.

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Sherlock03
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07 Nov 2013, 9:06 pm

thomas81 wrote:

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Thats why I support things like the inheritance tax, especially for these banker crooks that robbed the state during their lifetimes.

I thought you said that no one should be treated differently because of their birth.

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Mike1
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07 Nov 2013, 9:07 pm

Kurgan wrote:

In any case, as a white person, you do not know what it's like to be called racial slurs, to watch old racist cartoons still presented as cultural history or to listen to old hicks on the radio who whine about how terrible it is to have a black president (and neither do I, for that matter). South Park actually has a few episodes that explain this very well.

The media has described people on the spectrum as being about every bad thing in the book. Sure we don't have people calling us racial slurs, but is it really any better being thought of as a subhuman, emotionless, shallow, stupid, ignorant, lazy, antisocial, paraphile, who no one likes. There are probably more people in the US who hate people on the spectrum, than people who hate non-whites. The media used to blame black men for everything, then they blamed Muslims for everything, and now it's loners and people on the spectrum that get blamed for everything. We're no better off than any other minority that gets discriminated against.

91
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07 Nov 2013, 9:09 pm

thomas81 wrote:

91 wrote:

privilege is still around but it is different to what it used to be.

I think it is more complicated than that. Privilege in some form will always exist, because some people will always be born with more and others less and they will pass part of it on to their relatives and children. You can't wage a war on human nature and win, rather we draw boundaries. I am all for fixing things to an extent but absolute solutions to human problems are impossible. The real progress will always be made by moderates who just want to make their way in the world.

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thomas81
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07 Nov 2013, 9:09 pm

Sherlock03 wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

Quote:

Thats why I support things like the inheritance tax, especially for these banker crooks that robbed the state during their lifetimes.

I thought you said that no one should be treated differently because of their birth.

Thats precisely the point. Its about taxing people who leave excessive amounts of money when they die.

Why should you get a huge leg up in life because your banker daddy laundered millions of dollars to a bank account in Switzerland or the Bahamas?

I think governments should be doing more to recoup this money.

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