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Jared Taylor Destroys Affirmative Action

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Fnord
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14 Nov 2013, 1:34 pm

AspE wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Who is this "We" you're referring to? I've never been a slave-owner.

The American people.

Which American people? Are any still living?

I share no guilt for any crimes committed by others, especially when the perpetrators of those crimes and their victims died long before I was ever born.

I owe NOTHING - not one freaking thing - to anyone whose ancestors were slaves.

Deal with it.


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adb
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14 Nov 2013, 3:01 pm

AspE wrote:
adb wrote:
I've only been alive a bit over 40 years and I've never enslaved anyone. I suspect you've never had slaves either. Please explain to me why we should be held accountable for something people did a long time before either of us were born.

Your government allowed it. And the detrimental effects are ongoing.

The people in my government weren't alive then either.

Also, visagrunt made the point in another thread that I'm not implicated by government's decisions:

visagrunt wrote:
You pay for nothing. You pay your taxes, and the legislature appropriates those moneys to fund government's activities. Your input into how taxes are spent ends at the ballot box. The suggestion that you are implicated by government's decisions is fallacious, at best.

Do you disagree with his conclusion?



Fnord
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14 Nov 2013, 3:21 pm

If anyone is to make reparations to the descendents of slaves, then it should be the descendents of the people who sold slaves in the first place - The English, the Irish, the Spanish, and "black" Africans.

People who are ready to blame guns manufacturers for gun violence should blame the slave sellers for slavery.


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sonofghandi
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14 Nov 2013, 3:25 pm

Fnord wrote:
People who are ready to blame guns manufacturers for gun violence should blame the slave sellers for slavery.


Agreed.


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AspE
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14 Nov 2013, 5:47 pm

Fnord wrote:
AspE wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Who is this "We" you're referring to? I've never been a slave-owner.

The American people.

Which American people? Are any still living?

I share no guilt for any crimes committed by others, especially when the perpetrators of those crimes and their victims died long before I was ever born.

I owe NOTHING - not one freaking thing - to anyone whose ancestors were slaves.

Deal with it.

No one is talking about prosecuting anyone for a crime. It's about doing something to correct previous wrongs. The US government is still the US government.



AspE
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14 Nov 2013, 5:48 pm

Fnord wrote:
If anyone is to make reparations to the descendents of slaves, then it should be the descendents of the people who sold slaves in the first place - The English, the Irish, the Spanish, and "black" Africans.

People who are ready to blame guns manufacturers for gun violence should blame the slave sellers for slavery.

Without demand, there would have been no slave trade.



AspE
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14 Nov 2013, 5:50 pm

adb wrote:
Also, visagrunt made the point in another thread that I'm not implicated by government's decisions:

visagrunt wrote:
You pay for nothing. You pay your taxes, and the legislature appropriates those moneys to fund government's activities. Your input into how taxes are spent ends at the ballot box. The suggestion that you are implicated by government's decisions is fallacious, at best.

Do you disagree with his conclusion?

I'm not even sure what that means.



adb
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14 Nov 2013, 6:09 pm

AspE wrote:
No one is talking about prosecuting anyone for a crime. It's about doing something to correct previous wrongs. The US government is still the US government.

No, it's really not. The government is comprised of people. The people that were involved in any of these wrongs have been dead for generations. The US government of today is a completely different set of people.

Your position is just as ludicrous as saying that the current Germans should make reparations to current Jews. There are very few Germans alive now that were involved in any of that. If anything, it's worse since there haven't been any slave owners alive for over a hundred years.

If you feel guilty and want to be racist against white people in return for racism against blacks from a long time ago, go for it. But don't enforce this idiocy through legislation.



Fnord
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14 Nov 2013, 6:48 pm

AspE wrote:
It's about doing something to correct previous wrongs.

The Emancipation Proclamation and the 13th Amendment have corrected the wrongs of slavery through the abolition of slavery.

AspE wrote:
The US government is still the US government.

The former slaves have all died.
The former slave-owners have all died.
The former leaders and citizens of the U.S. Government during the time of slavery and emancipation have all died.

What you propose is to cause people who were not involved in the commission of slavery to give special privileges to people who were not enslaved because slavery was once legal in this country.

That is not just wrong, it is stupid. That's like saying that all men should pay child support to the descendents of all women who were raped during the Starvations in Ireland in the 1840s.

What country do you come from?


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ruveyn
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14 Nov 2013, 7:19 pm

Fnord wrote:
AspE wrote:
It's about doing something to correct previous wrongs.

The Emancipation Proclamation and the 13th Amendment have corrected the wrongs of slavery through the abolition of slavery.

AspE wrote:
The US government is still the US government.

The former slaves have all died.
The former slave-owners have all died.
The former leaders and citizens of the U.S. Government during the time of slavery and emancipation have all died.

What you propose is to cause people who were not involved in the commission of slavery to give special privileges to people who were not enslaved because slavery was once legal in this country.

That is not just wrong, it is stupid. That's like saying that all men should pay child support to the descendents of all women who were raped during the Starvations in Ireland in the 1840s.

What country do you come from?


There you go again, being logical.

Some pinko stinko commie loving Progressive Liberal is going to have a hissy fit.

ruveyn



Fnord
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14 Nov 2013, 11:57 pm

Some pinko stinko commie loving Progressive knee-jerk bleeding-heart foreign Liberal know-nothing busybody is going to have a hissy fit.

There YOU go again - leaving out the important details!

Fnord


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AspE
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15 Nov 2013, 11:07 am

Fnord wrote:
The Emancipation Proclamation and the 13th Amendment have corrected the wrongs of slavery through the abolition of slavery.

It abolished slavery, but you are incorrect in saying that it corrected the wrongs. 100 years of Jim Crow laws and racism are serious wrongs. In some states laws against interracial marriage were only abolished in the last several years!

Fnord wrote:
AspE wrote:
The US government is still the US government.

The former slaves have all died.
The former slave-owners have all died.
The former leaders and citizens of the U.S. Government during the time of slavery and emancipation have all died.

What you propose is to cause people who were not involved in the commission of slavery to give special privileges to people who were not enslaved because slavery was once legal in this country.

That is not just wrong, it is stupid. That's like saying that all men should pay child support to the descendents of all women who were raped during the Starvations in Ireland in the 1840s.

What country do you come from?

The legacy of slavery persists. It's the job of the Federal government to address problems in our society, no matter when the problem originated. Abolishing slavery was just the beginning of ending discrimination, not the end.



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15 Nov 2013, 11:14 am

adb wrote:
AspE wrote:
No one is talking about prosecuting anyone for a crime. It's about doing something to correct previous wrongs. The US government is still the US government.

No, it's really not. The government is comprised of people. The people that were involved in any of these wrongs have been dead for generations. The US government of today is a completely different set of people.

Your position is just as ludicrous as saying that the current Germans should make reparations to current Jews. There are very few Germans alive now that were involved in any of that. If anything, it's worse since there haven't been any slave owners alive for over a hundred years.

If you feel guilty and want to be racist against white people in return for racism against blacks from a long time ago, go for it. But don't enforce this idiocy through legislation.

Current Germans not only should make reparations to current Jews, they have in fact made an agreement in the 1950s to pay Israel some 3 billion marks. The historical legacy of a country transcends any one lifetime. We are still dealing with the repercussions of our horrendous treatment of Native Americans.



The_Walrus
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15 Nov 2013, 12:30 pm

AspE wrote:
in the 1950s

So no more than 15 years after the end of the Holocaust? When there were still victims to be compensated?

Slavery in the US ended much more than 15 years ago, and there are no living victims or perpetrators.



AspE
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15 Nov 2013, 12:39 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
AspE wrote:
in the 1950s

So no more than 15 years after the end of the Holocaust? When there were still victims to be compensated?

Slavery in the US ended much more than 15 years ago, and there are no living victims or perpetrators.

German didn't just compensate the victims, it paid out to Israel in general, and they gave them 2 nuclear capable submarines.

There are still living victims of slavery, every person of African-American descent who experiences racism, discrimination, poor living conditions, underfunded schools, gang violence, and disproportionate prison sentences.



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15 Nov 2013, 1:35 pm

AspE wrote:
There are still living victims of slavery, every person of African-American descent who experiences racism, discrimination, poor living conditions, underfunded schools, gang violence, and disproportionate prison sentences.

Indeed, all of the blame for the relative misfortune of African Americans should clearly be assigned solely to the sons of former slave owners (and the sons of former non-slave owners, as long as they were not slaves themselves).

After all, one could not possibly imagine *any* other development that might contribute to the relative misfortune of African Americans in contemporary America... right?

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