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The "Jewish" or "Bible" Value of pi

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Ganondox
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10 Dec 2013, 9:36 am

Fnord wrote:
It's Religion, Tal, wherein believing in something simple to understand (and inherently wrong) is preferred to knowing of something that is difficult to understand (and inherently correct).


1. It's not inherently correct, scientific knowledge changes overtime because it's not.
2. Often the real explanation is a lot simpler than many mystical explanations, depending on how you look at it.


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TheBicyclingGuitarist
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10 Dec 2013, 10:35 am

@appletheclown
yes science and religion deal with different aspects of human experience. Problems occur when one tries to make religion into science or science into a religion. The social controversy is not a conflict between religion and science. It is a conflict between the science of 2000 B.C. with the science of 2000 A.D. Any religious text of course incorporates the world view and knowledge of the people who wrote it. In the case of the Bible, the Hebrews used the cosmology and science believed by the ancient Near East: Babylonian, Egyptian and so on. Of course we have learned a lot more about science in the past four thousand years, but some people still insist that the science of 2000 B.C. is superior to the science of 2000 A.D. because they are ignorant of the actual evidence we have discovered since then.


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10 Dec 2013, 11:39 am

TheBicyclingGuitarist wrote:
@appletheclown
yes science and religion deal with different aspects of human experience. Problems occur when one tries to make religion into science or science into a religion. The social controversy is not a conflict between religion and science. It is a conflict between the science of 2000 B.C. with the science of 2000 A.D. Any religious text of course incorporates the world view and knowledge of the people who wrote it. In the case of the Bible, the Hebrews used the cosmology and science believed by the ancient Near East: Babylonian, Egyptian and so on. Of course we have learned a lot more about science in the past four thousand years, but some people still insist that the science of 2000 B.C. is superior to the science of 2000 A.D. because they are ignorant of the actual evidence we have discovered since then.


The Bible was written by and for late bronze age dudes who did not know that things were made of atoms, the earth was spherical and the the Sun did not go around the Earth (even though this is a plausible idea. Just look at the sky). They also did not know about inertia. If they did Joshua would not have called upon the Lord to stop the Sun and Moon in the sky which meant stop the earth from rotating which would mean all the oceans would wash over the land killing everyone.

ruveyn



appletheclown
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10 Dec 2013, 11:43 am

ruveyn wrote:
TheBicyclingGuitarist wrote:
@appletheclown
yes science and religion deal with different aspects of human experience. Problems occur when one tries to make religion into science or science into a religion. The social controversy is not a conflict between religion and science. It is a conflict between the science of 2000 B.C. with the science of 2000 A.D. Any religious text of course incorporates the world view and knowledge of the people who wrote it. In the case of the Bible, the Hebrews used the cosmology and science believed by the ancient Near East: Babylonian, Egyptian and so on. Of course we have learned a lot more about science in the past four thousand years, but some people still insist that the science of 2000 B.C. is superior to the science of 2000 A.D. because they are ignorant of the actual evidence we have discovered since then.


The Bible was written by and for late bronze age dudes who did not know that things were made of atoms, the earth was spherical and the the Sun did not go around the Earth (even though this is a plausible idea. Just look at the sky). They also did not know about inertia. If they did Joshua would not have called upon the Lord to stop the Sun and Moon in the sky which meant stop the earth from rotating which would mean all the oceans would wash over the land killing everyone.

ruveyn

You realize planetary alignment makes it appear they have stopped, for a short period, as an illusion.


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10 Dec 2013, 7:35 pm

appletheclown wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
TheBicyclingGuitarist wrote:
@appletheclown
yes science and religion deal with different aspects of human experience. Problems occur when one tries to make religion into science or science into a religion. The social controversy is not a conflict between religion and science. It is a conflict between the science of 2000 B.C. with the science of 2000 A.D. Any religious text of course incorporates the world view and knowledge of the people who wrote it. In the case of the Bible, the Hebrews used the cosmology and science believed by the ancient Near East: Babylonian, Egyptian and so on. Of course we have learned a lot more about science in the past four thousand years, but some people still insist that the science of 2000 B.C. is superior to the science of 2000 A.D. because they are ignorant of the actual evidence we have discovered since then.
The Bible was written by and for late bronze age dudes who did not know that things were made of atoms, the earth was spherical and the the Sun did not go around the Earth (even though this is a plausible idea. Just look at the sky). They also did not know about inertia. If they did Joshua would not have called upon the Lord to stop the Sun and Moon in the sky which meant stop the earth from rotating which would mean all the oceans would wash over the land killing everyone. ruveyn
You realize planetary alignment makes it appear they have stopped, for a short period, as an illusion.

You realize that this claim is completely false, as apparent retrograde motion does not occur with the sun or the moon.

:roll: ... fundies ... they never learn ...



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10 Dec 2013, 7:51 pm

The moon is not an effing planet! Do you think every biblical being who actually existed is a complete idiot?
When the planets align, NOT MOONS, it obviously doesn't matter worth a horde of nukes where the sun is!
I DON'T BELIEVE FUNDAMENTAL BULLCRAP. I'm not wrong because (insert something I don't believe in and neither do you)! What kind of person are you?


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appletheclown
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10 Dec 2013, 7:53 pm

From what I know, even galaxies move.


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appletheclown
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10 Dec 2013, 8:17 pm

Yeah nice trick, and the planet mercury has a pet dog. I'm sure the moon had its own superstitious value in proto semitic religion I'm sure than the planets they wouldn't even be able to see the face of. Ancients knew there were planets, and knew planets were not moons.


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MCalavera
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11 Dec 2013, 1:01 am

appletheclown wrote:
The moon is not an effing planet! Do you think every biblical being who actually existed is a complete idiot?
When the planets align, NOT MOONS, it obviously doesn't matter worth a horde of nukes where the sun is!
I DON'T BELIEVE FUNDAMENTAL BULLCRAP. I'm not wrong because (insert something I don't believe in and neither do you)! What kind of person are you?


This isn't really about ignorance. It's about the claim that God could even stop the sun if he wanted to. In other words, a supposed miracle.

But obviously, the Jews did not know about the consequences that would occur as a result (as what Ruveyn stated). They weren't advanced in such knowledge.



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11 Dec 2013, 1:05 am

Fnord wrote:
As I've said in many other threads, the Biblical value of Pi is implied by both the diameter (10 cubits) and the circumference (30 cubits) of the circular basin. Anyone with more than a third-grade education can do the maths and arrive at the value of exactly 3, which is off the value of Pi by more than 4.5%.


I get the feeling you didn't actually check the link.



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11 Dec 2013, 7:33 am

MCalavera wrote:
appletheclown wrote:
The moon is not an effing planet! Do you think every biblical being who actually existed is a complete idiot?
When the planets align, NOT MOONS, it obviously doesn't matter worth a horde of nukes where the sun is!
I DON'T BELIEVE FUNDAMENTAL BULLCRAP. I'm not wrong because (insert something I don't believe in and neither do you)! What kind of person are you?


This isn't really about ignorance. It's about the claim that God could even stop the sun if he wanted to. In other words, a supposed miracle.

But obviously, the Jews did not know about the consequences that would occur as a result (as what Ruveyn stated). They weren't advanced in such knowledge.

IF he is God, he can turn your brain into worms for all he cares. Why doesn't he show proof? Why didn't we all die when he stopped earths motion? Because HE IS GOD. God is not claiming science is false, God is the one who created it. If there is a God, he would be able to keep the stupid water from moving too.


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11 Dec 2013, 7:37 am

How he made them think so is God's business. For all we know, he could have giant Slim Jims made for him by angels dressed like Legolas from lord of the rings. "Oh that is impossible.." of course it is, we don't call God bob, do we?


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11 Dec 2013, 8:29 am

appletheclown wrote:
How he made them think so is God's business. For all we know, he could have giant Slim Jims made for him by angels dressed like Legolas from lord of the rings. "Oh that is impossible.." of course it is, we don't call God bob, do we?

Now you're saying that God is a deceiver.

I wonder what that says about Satan ...



MCalavera
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11 Dec 2013, 9:05 am

appletheclown wrote:
Why didn't we all die when he stopped earths motion?


When did he do that in real life? Some "holy" book says he stopped the sun and the moon (not Earth), but it doesn't mean you should take its word for it.

Use your brain, son.



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11 Dec 2013, 7:57 pm

MCalavera wrote:
appletheclown wrote:
Why didn't we all die when he stopped earths motion?


When did he do that in real life? Some "holy" book says he stopped the sun and the moon (not Earth), but it doesn't mean you should take its word for it.

Use your brain, son.


Though he sorta has a point, if God could stop the earh from rotating, equally he could probably stop everything from flying off of it.


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MCalavera
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11 Dec 2013, 10:41 pm

I'm not about to allow this to be a valid possibility. Can we go back to Pi please? I couldn't care less about Phi or the sun in this thread.