Page 3 of 6 [ 94 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

ArrantPariah
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2012
Age: 122
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,972

14 Dec 2013, 9:15 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
While there had been Greek settlers in Asia Minor, and the Greek culture and language had spread throughout that area, the original population had been of Anatolian stock, who very likely looked much like modern Turks.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population ... and_Turkey



vermontsavant
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,110
Location: Left WP forever

14 Dec 2013, 10:22 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
em_tsuj wrote:
Does anybody have a clip of John Stewarts' reaction to this on the Daily Show?

John Stewart (and other Jews I have met) do not consider themselves white. How could you, with such a history of persecution by Europeans who are anti-Semitic? The definition of white changes in America all the time. White = ethnic groups the majority does not consider to be threatening or inferior.

I find it interesting that Fox (cable's version of talk radio and an unofficial arm or the Republican Party) has people who are claiming Jews as white.

Also, wouldn't someone who is Turkish be closer ethnically to being white than a Jewish person? Isn't Turkey part of Europe while Palestine is part of Asia?


Er..., I'm definitely a liberal, and I've always considered European Jews to be white.
white and caucasion are 2 different things.

iranians and hindi's are caucasions but are not white,jews are white but are semites like arabs not caucasions.

race is a bloodline and skin color goes by climate.in the much cooler mountainous regions of Iran far from the hot desert many iranians are white and even have red hair


There are fair Iranians because Persia (ancient Iran) had in ancient times been overrun by the blond Aryans who had also invaded India.
The Aryans - as all Indo-Europeans - had originated in central Asia, and had dispersed outward in all directions. Central Asia was later in turn overrun by Turkic peoples who introduced their dark complexions to the gene pool. Even so, sometimes Nordic looking people can still be found in that part of the world. Those Indo-Europeans who had colonized Europe - especially in the north - found themselves living among a population that was already predominantly fair colored.
yes thats true.however the speaking of PIE in Iran,the southern caucuses and west central asia pre dates nothern european colinization or conquest.

Nordic's,scythians,russes,goth's and celts came from Iran not vice versa.


_________________
Forever gone
Sorry I ever joined


ArrantPariah
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2012
Age: 122
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,972

14 Dec 2013, 12:11 pm

Conservative Commentator Stephen Colbert agrees: Santa is White

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/stephen-colber ... 40635.html



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,953
Location:      

14 Dec 2013, 12:36 pm

On the Free Expression of Sexuality...

... Jesus Christ says: "If any one of you is without sin, let him cast the first stone."
... White Jesus says: "Homosexuals will burn in HELL!! ! Someone, hand me a torch!"

On Alcohol & Drugs...

... Jesus Christ says: "What goes into a man's mouth does not defile him; but what comes out of his mouth, that defiles him."
... White Jesus says: "Just saying 'No' cures addiction, leaving you free to get high on me!"

On Abortion...

... Jesus Christ says: "..."
... White Jesus says: "Abortion is EEEEEEEVIL!! ! Kill the Abortionists! Burn their clinics! Do it in my name and reap your rewards in Heaven!"

On War...

... Jesus Christ says: "All who live by the sword shall die by the sword."
... White Jesus says: "Kill them all and let my dad sort them out!"

On Separation of Church & State...

... Jesus Christ says: "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's; and render unto God that which is God's."
... White Jesus says: "*&^%$#@ the State and its laws! I am the only law around here!"

On Money...

... Jesus Christ says: "It is easier for a camel to pass through the 'Eye of the Needle' than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven."
... White Jesus says: "Make a pledge now! Your donation will keep this ministry on the air! Operators are standing by!"

:lol:



Mamselle
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 24 Oct 2013
Age: 61
Gender: Female
Posts: 131

14 Dec 2013, 1:31 pm

To me, race is a social construct. There is no genetic difference between a black person and a white person. While some people refer to Jewish people as a "race," I tend to think of people like that as, well, racist. :lol:

This lady who said that needs to have someone sit down with her and break the (to her, heartrending, I'm sure) news that Santa Claus is a fictional character. :) It's a good chance Jesus is, too, but then I'm Jewish so I'm already skeptical. haha



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

14 Dec 2013, 1:45 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
em_tsuj wrote:
Does anybody have a clip of John Stewarts' reaction to this on the Daily Show?

John Stewart (and other Jews I have met) do not consider themselves white. How could you, with such a history of persecution by Europeans who are anti-Semitic? The definition of white changes in America all the time. White = ethnic groups the majority does not consider to be threatening or inferior.

I find it interesting that Fox (cable's version of talk radio and an unofficial arm or the Republican Party) has people who are claiming Jews as white.

Also, wouldn't someone who is Turkish be closer ethnically to being white than a Jewish person? Isn't Turkey part of Europe while Palestine is part of Asia?


Er..., I'm definitely a liberal, and I've always considered European Jews to be white.
white and caucasion are 2 different things.

iranians and hindi's are caucasions but are not white,jews are white but are semites like arabs not caucasions.

race is a bloodline and skin color goes by climate.in the much cooler mountainous regions of Iran far from the hot desert many iranians are white and even have red hair


There are fair Iranians because Persia (ancient Iran) had in ancient times been overrun by the blond Aryans who had also invaded India.
The Aryans - as all Indo-Europeans - had originated in central Asia, and had dispersed outward in all directions. Central Asia was later in turn overrun by Turkic peoples who introduced their dark complexions to the gene pool. Even so, sometimes Nordic looking people can still be found in that part of the world. Those Indo-Europeans who had colonized Europe - especially in the north - found themselves living among a population that was already predominantly fair colored.
yes thats true.however the speaking of PIE in Iran,the southern caucuses and west central asia pre dates nothern european colinization or conquest.

Nordic's,scythians,russes,goth's and celts came from Iran not vice versa.


I think I should explain the term "Aryan" here. Despite the Nazi and white supremacist view of Aryan being synonymous with north European, the truth is the Indo-European homeland was doubtlessly on the eastern steppes and central Asia, and the Aryans in particular were the eastern branch of this group. The truth is, while there is a strain of Indo-European haplogroup R1A in Europe that is also identified with the eastern Aryans, it's westernmost carriers are mostly Slavs and Roma - two groups Hitler and his gang considered to be Untermenschen. While R1a can be found among Germanic peoples, it's much lower in frequency. Much more common among Germanic populations is R1b, which is mostly associated with the Celts and Romans. While theses two Haplogroups make up large segments of Germanic populations, they had both come out of the east during the Neolithic and Bronze Age. It was haplogroup I - clearly a Pre-Indo-European group - that was native to Europe since the last Ice Age, and unlike the rest of Europe can still be found as a significant element among Germanic and Balkan Slav populations. Haplogoup I in it's various subclades actually makes Germanic populations different from those populations with significantly higher strains of R1a and R1b.
Or to make a long story short, it's wrong to think the Aryans of Persia and India had originated in northern Europe.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Geekonychus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Nov 2012
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,660

14 Dec 2013, 1:58 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Conservative Commentator Stephen Colbert agrees: Santa is White

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/stephen-colber ... 40635.html


Daily show has a response up to:
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/stewart-demo ... %E2%84%A2/



vermontsavant
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,110
Location: Left WP forever

14 Dec 2013, 2:16 pm

@Kraichgauer

where in any of my did i use the term aryan,nowhere.i said the myth of santa claus was inspired by true events in Finland.
like you i said the proto indo euro's came from in and aroud the caucasus montains of central asia,south eastern europe and that Iranians are likely the original europeans.i spoke nothing of aryans.


as far as i know the aryan notion is myth.when the goth's in the middle ages wanted to try out mono theism they had a problem.they hated romans,byzintines and catholic and eastern orthodoxed churches.

so to piss off rome and greeces the germanic goth's followed rogue libyian theologian Areies who was considered a heretic by constantine.so gothic barbaians became arian christians.
then the pope started caling anyone with blue eyes and blond hair an arian because many germanic peoples followed libyan theologian Aries.

that is where the term came from as best i know.there is no aryan race accept a very thin bloodline in lybya.read my post before you respond to them


_________________
Forever gone
Sorry I ever joined


ArrantPariah
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2012
Age: 122
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,972

14 Dec 2013, 4:05 pm

Geekonychus wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Conservative Commentator Stephen Colbert agrees: Santa is White

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/stephen-colber ... 40635.html


Daily show has a response up to:
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/stewart-demo ... %E2%84%A2/


It must really suck to be one of the Comedy Central employees who have to sit and watch Fox News all day (and into the evening), waiting for one of these nuggets to be broadcasted.

Watching Fox News is fine, I'm sure, for the ret*d dimwits (aka Conservatives) who don't know any better, and really have nothing better to do with their lives, anyway.

But, Comedy Central employees are intelligent people. It must be horrible for them to have to sit and watch Fox News all day. I wouldn't be able to stand it. I'd have to switch the channel and watch cartoons for some intellectual stimulation.



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 71
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,189
Location: temperate zone

14 Dec 2013, 5:02 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
@Kraichgauer

where in any of my did i use the term aryan,nowhere.i said the myth of santa claus was inspired by true events in Finland.
like you i said the proto indo euro's came from in and aroud the caucasus montains of central asia,south eastern europe and that Iranians are likely the original europeans.i spoke nothing of aryans.


as far as i know the aryan notion is myth.when the goth's in the middle ages wanted to try out mono theism they had a problem.they hated romans,byzintines and catholic and eastern orthodoxed churches.

so to piss off rome and greeces the germanic goth's followed rogue libyian theologian Areies who was considered a heretic by constantine.so gothic barbaians became arian christians.
then the pope started caling anyone with blue eyes and blond hair an arian because many germanic peoples followed libyan theologian Aries.

that is where the term came from as best i know.there is no aryan race accept a very thin bloodline in lybya.read my post before you respond to them



I dont know about this Finnish folklore character. He might have fleshed out the santa clause myth after St. Nick's time. But the original "Saint Nicholas" was an Ionian Greek from the coast of anatolia in the Fifth Centurey AD. He even attended the conference in which they hammered out the Nicene Creed no less. He was known for giving anonymous gifts- like coins in shoes left out for him (though I dont know if that was at xmas time or not) hense the association with gift giving.

The Barbarians were out for plunder. They were not anti-roman ideologues. But the heretical non-trinitarian form of Christianity named after the North African Bishop Orian did indeed catch on with the Northern Barbarians for some reason. It was called "Arian Christianity"- which is indeed confusing to us modern readers of ancient history . But the term had no connection with the "Aryan Race" thing.

THAT word "Aryan" came from the name Iranians called their ancient ancestors (even the words Aryan, and Iranian, have a family resemblence). In the nineteenth centurey European scholars noticed the curious resemblence between Iranian, and North Indian languages on one hand- and most European languages(on the other), and an ancestrial "Aryan Race" was postulated that spoke the proto Indo european language and spread it around by conquest and migrations to both east and west. This race was envisioned as being fair colored warriors. And this notion then got woven into the Nazi ideologies of race. So "Aryan" meaning "ancient Iranian" came to be equated with "Nordic" in the 20 centurey.



The_Walrus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,878
Location: London

14 Dec 2013, 5:21 pm

Mamselle wrote:
To me, race is a social construct. There is no genetic difference between a black person and a white person.

Then why are black people black and white people white?



dizzywater
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 3 Feb 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 278
Location: sitting by the computer

14 Dec 2013, 5:48 pm

St Nicholas was from around modern day Turkey, the stories of Santa differ slightly although they are of course loosely based on St Nick.

In Europe the modern Santa has always resided in Lapland, which is partly in Finland and partly in Russia. Trips to Lapland do a roaring trade among parents who take the story that bit further for their gullible little darlings.

Then we get American films which mysteriously moved Santa to Greenland, then again to the North Pole. Very confusing for the kids.

I think he got moved during the cold war, for obvious reasons, couldn't have Santa living in Russia!

So since he is only loosely based on a little known historical figure but is a huge modern day example of mass hysteria and widespread deception, I think his colour isn't really the worrying part.

Arctic climates do favour fat white guys though, from a vitamin D and not freezing to death point of view, no doubt there.



jrjones9933
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,144
Location: The end of the northwest passage

14 Dec 2013, 6:24 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Mamselle wrote:
To me, race is a social construct. There is no genetic difference between a black person and a white person.

Then why are black people black and white people white?


Mamselle was correct that race is a social construct. On the genetic level, the case is a little more complex, but the facts still don't hold any utility for people who want to promote racist stereotypes based on genetics. Genetic screening finds more differences within cultures than between them.

Socially, people attach a great deal of importance to basic, obvious factors like skin color, hair color and texture, and common features like the shape of eyes and noses. People notice patterns of that kind very quickly. There's a clear evolutionary advantage in doing so, and genes do determine those physical features.

The error comes from claiming that genetics determine people's abilities, tendencies, or even capacity for good or evil, which people do, or have a tendency to do, when they start talking about race. The science simply does not support any of that. Again, genetic screening finds more differences within cultures than between them. Every culture produces individuals with every level of ability, intellect, and of every emotional type. Upbringing and environment determine which personalities and skills become more prevalent in the group.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,953
Location:      

14 Dec 2013, 8:10 pm

Megyn Kelly now claims that she was only joking

Quote:
Megyn Kelly is going with the just-kidding defense after drawing mockery for her claim that Santa Claus - and Jesus - are white.

Right ... a blonde-haired, blue-eyed, white-bread-with-mayonnaise bigot is implying that SHE is the victim after being called out for making a racist comment.

Yeah ... and Mitt Romney was a victim of media bias ... :roll:



ArrantPariah
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2012
Age: 122
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,972

14 Dec 2013, 8:40 pm

Fnord wrote:
Yeah ... and Mitt Romney was a victim of media bias ... :roll:


Well, he was, you know

Image



vermontsavant
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,110
Location: Left WP forever

14 Dec 2013, 9:14 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
@Kraichgauer

where in any of my did i use the term aryan,nowhere.i said the myth of santa claus was inspired by true events in Finland.
like you i said the proto indo euro's came from in and aroud the caucasus montains of central asia,south eastern europe and that Iranians are likely the original europeans.i spoke nothing of aryans.


as far as i know the aryan notion is myth.when the goth's in the middle ages wanted to try out mono theism they had a problem.they hated romans,byzintines and catholic and eastern orthodoxed churches.

so to piss off rome and greeces the germanic goth's followed rogue libyian theologian Areies who was considered a heretic by constantine.so gothic barbaians became arian christians.
then the pope started caling anyone with blue eyes and blond hair an arian because many germanic peoples followed libyan theologian Aries.

that is where the term came from as best i know.there is no aryan race accept a very thin bloodline in lybya.read my post before you respond to them



I dont know about this Finnish folklore character. He might have fleshed out the santa clause myth after St. Nick's time. But the original "Saint Nicholas" was an Ionian Greek from the coast of anatolia in the Fifth Centurey AD. He even attended the conference in which they hammered out the Nicene Creed no less. He was known for giving anonymous gifts- like coins in shoes left out for him (though I dont know if that was at xmas time or not) hense the association with gift giving.

The Barbarians were out for plunder. They were not anti-roman ideologues. But the heretical non-trinitarian form of Christianity named after the North African Bishop Orian did indeed catch on with the Northern Barbarians for some reason. It was called "Arian Christianity"- which is indeed confusing to us modern readers of ancient history . But the term had no connection with the "Aryan Race" thing.

THAT word "Aryan" came from the name Iranians called their ancient ancestors (even the words Aryan, and Iranian, have a family resemblence). In the nineteenth centurey European scholars noticed the curious resemblence between Iranian, and North Indian languages on one hand- and most European languages(on the other), and an ancestrial "Aryan Race" was postulated that spoke the proto Indo european language and spread it around by conquest and migrations to both east and west. This race was envisioned as being fair colored warriors. And this notion then got woven into the Nazi ideologies of race. So "Aryan" meaning "ancient Iranian" came to be equated with "Nordic" in the 20 centurey.
i have read some different things but you know your history very well.
it was actually a book about the huns where i read the term arian was coined by the pope because the blond haired goths followed aries but the auther was an expert on the huns not the goths and certainly not aries.and your right arian and iranian sound so similar and iranians were the god fathers of caucasions so maybe your right.you know history well


_________________
Forever gone
Sorry I ever joined