Question about Jesus sacrificing himself for our sins

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adb
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02 Jan 2014, 4:20 pm

dizzywater wrote:
I was at a carol service tonight. A reading from genesis described childbirth pain as a punishment for giving Adam the apple (even though it wasn't forbidden to give him an apple, only for him to eat it).

So how come that sin wasn't forgiven if Jesus sacrificed himself so we could all be forgiven and absolved of our sins? I've had children, it definitely hurts.

The concept of someone else atoning for your sins is ludicrous. If you want to atone for your wrongdoings, make reparations to the people you hurt. If nobody was hurt, you didn't do anything wrong. Don't use an imaginary deity as justification to ignore interpersonal responsibility.

Christianity is a control mechanism. You are given a creative way to avoid personal responsibility in exchange for following arbitrary rules.



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02 Jan 2014, 4:57 pm

adb, I do know Christians who do lead very thoughtful lives, the real ones.

There are plenty of others who are just like you say, feel absolved when they have made no reparation to the injured party and feel superior because they follow the rules and are so much more upstanding than those not in their church.



adb
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02 Jan 2014, 5:58 pm

dizzywater wrote:
adb, I do know Christians who do lead very thoughtful lives, the real ones.

There are plenty of others who are just like you say, feel absolved when they have made no reparation to the injured party and feel superior because they follow the rules and are so much more upstanding than those not in their church.

I can't really understand the claim that some Christians are more "real" than others.

Christianity, by definition, is about admitting that you are incapable of making reparations appropriate to your "sins": you need to be "saved" by believing that Jesus paid for your sins. Anyone who believes that is a "real Christian". And in my opinion, anyone who believes that is making the decision (consciously or not) to avoid personal responsibility.



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10 Jan 2014, 6:55 pm

But its been such a long time, nearly 2000 years. He died to absolve his followers sins so they would be saved when the world ended. It didn't happen, so people still opt for burial rather than cremation so their bodies can be resurrected. After this length of time they might as well have been cremated for all that is left of the bodies.

The world wasn't supposed to be still ticking along nicely, some would even say that certain fundamentalist politicians have tried to kick start the predicted apocalypse to begin in the middle east. They are fully aware of the contradiction, but can't admit it.

Isn't it time to admit that maybe something didn't go to plan? Someone somewhere made a mistake in the story?



Nambo
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10 Jan 2014, 8:04 pm

dizzywater wrote:
But its been such a long time, nearly 2000 years. He died to absolve his followers sins so they would be saved when the world ended. It didn't happen, so people still opt for burial rather than cremation so their bodies can be resurrected. After this length of time they might as well have been cremated for all that is left of the bodies.

The world wasn't supposed to be still ticking along nicely, some would even say that certain fundamentalist politicians have tried to kick start the predicted apocalypse to begin in the middle east. They are fully aware of the contradiction, but can't admit it.

Isn't it time to admit that maybe something didn't go to plan? Someone somewhere made a mistake in the story?


Two things, firstly, a scripture says "this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in the entire inhabited world, and then the end will come", there are probably still a lot of places the good news hasnt reached yet.

More importantly, God wont bring his Kingdom and kill off all the unbelievers until he has no other choice, a scripture in Revelation says he will "bring to ruin those ruining the Earth", a notion that was untenable when Revelation was written, but we now seem to be getting close to doing such, another scripture says, "unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved", when the creation has completely proved Satan's misleading claims to be wrong to the extent creation is about to expire, then Jesus will return, or at least when Satan's global government threatens to end worship of God :-

Revelation 12 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.[b]