Sex education

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Jacoby
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14 Jan 2014, 3:06 pm

GGPViper wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

Would anybody like to argue that these classes should be compulsory? Educating your child on matters of sex should be the parent's responsibility, if a parent is so inclined to opt out of these classes for their child then that is their right. Teachers shouldn't undermine the wishes of the parent.

Yes, I would argue that. I am a firm believer that the needs of children should outweigh the desires of their parents.

And the absolutely dismal state of sex education in the US (comparable to that of third world countries) amply demonstrates that a lot parents are incapable of shouldering the responsibility of providing useful sex education.

The state does not own your children and if a parent does not want this child to participate then under what authority do they have to say different? I think it is silly to compare the US to theocratic third world countries because they don't spend 5 hours teaching kids how to put a condom on in every classroom.

GGPViper
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14 Jan 2014, 3:43 pm

Jacoby wrote:

GGPViper wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

The state does not own your children and if a parent does not want this child to participate then under what authority do they have to say different?

The parents don't own their children, either. Last time I checked, there is no mention of "father", "mother", "parent", "child" or "family" in the US constitution, neither in the original text nor the amendments.

It seems somewhat arbitrary, then, to assign specific rights to parents in cases where they are - obviously - subjecting their children to health risks through poor education (not just the risks of teen pregnancy, but also STDs).

Jacoby wrote:

I think it is silly to compare the US to theocratic third world countries because they don't spend 5 hours teaching kids how to put a condom on in every classroom.

Actually, most current theocracies (which - disregarding the Vatican - are almost exclusively states ruled by Islamic law) in the world have lower teen birth rates than the US.

And the teenage birth rate of the US is 2.2 times larger than in the country of my mother's birth (Burundi, the 2nd poorest country in the world).

Source (same as earlier): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence ... Statistics

CSBurks
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14 Jan 2014, 3:45 pm

When I was in high school, sex ed consisted of "don't have sex."

LKL
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14 Jan 2014, 5:42 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

This is why you provide sexually active girls with the birth control shot. Problem solved.

This is not correct. Or, rather, it is only correct if you think that pregnancy is the only possible negative consequence of sex; there's a whole suite of STIs than can also occur, some of which cannot be cured and others of which are becoming resistant to the antibiotics that used to cure them.
{snip description of pre-puberty level sex-ed}
By the description you gave, the girls in question above wouldn't even have a basic understanding of the shot that they were being compelled to take, nor of any alternative forms of birth control, nor of any possible side-effects to the shot. I don't think that kids need some sort of thrust-by-thrust account of what sex is, but they need to know enough to get by as adults in the real world; that means knowing about their various options for birth control, how often the succeed and how often they fail, and the risks and benefits associated with all of them; and it also means knowing about the consequences of unprotected sex, both pregnancy and STIs.
And, frankly, women in general would be a hell of a lot happier if young men were taught what the clitoris is, and that most of the women (and a lot of the men) in porn are either faking it, or taking drugs to help them perform.

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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14 Jan 2014, 6:19 pm

LKL wrote:

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

This is why you provide sexually active girls with the birth control shot. Problem solved.

I've already stated the same thing in this thread. My belief if people are going to have sexual intercourse it would be with somebody they know well and are comfortable with. I do not support the multiple partners type of lifestyle or sex with strangers. Ideally they are encouraged to find someone they want to be with and if not, abstain completely. If they are going to be with someone and do not want to have any children, get a birth control shot. Sex is a serious business not some game. Species have sex in order to reproduce as this is often the outcome so you have to be willing to take it seriously or don't have it.
This is the year 2014 young people know more about HIV and AIDS than their parents. They know how it's spread. They know multiple partners without condoms puts you at higher risk. This is why most want one partner, a girl friend or a boyfriend. The problem is, keeping them from getting pregnant before they are ready and for that they need some kind of reliable birth control. A shot is the best option because it's very uncomplicated and simple. It doesn't require daily doses, you do not need to run to the store every time you need to buy it. Just go the doctor and get one shot that lasts about three months, then get another. Perfectly safe and effective. Worry free.

Some women do not want to discuss their clitoris with just anyone. See the problem is, you want this discussion that would make many women uncomfortable in a room full of people. Most people do not get along with everyone they go to school with or sit in a classroom with. I personally do not want to discuss my clitoris or engage in a discussion about clitorii with individuals I don't like or know because it's very personal. This is how I see it and my wishes should be respected. I know what a clitoris is, tyvm, and I didn't learn about how to orgasm at school nor do I wish to.

buffinator
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14 Jan 2014, 7:51 pm

**random racism**

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Last edited by buffinator on 15 Jan 2014, 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

GGPViper
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15 Jan 2014, 4:32 am

buffinator wrote:

that's because teens pregnant out of wedlock in Islamic countries are subject to summary execution, so it doesn't really count.

That makes no sense. They just get pregnant *inside* wedlock instead... :shrug:

Besides, very sexually permissive European countries like Denmark, Sweden, Germany and the Netherlands have even lower teen pregnancy rates than these Islamic states.

buffinator
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15 Jan 2014, 9:54 am

**random racism**

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Last edited by buffinator on 15 Jan 2014, 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sonofghandi
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15 Jan 2014, 10:38 am

Jacoby wrote:

So should the state stay out of emotional and physical child abuse cases? Should the state have any say in whether or not parents can give their 6 year old a shot of whiskey to put them to sleep for the night?

Or if you want less extreme:
Should the state be allowed to tell a parent that their child must have an education? To tell a parent that their 10 year old can't take the car out onto the interstate?

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GGPViper
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15 Jan 2014, 11:54 am

buffinator wrote:

GGPViper wrote:

buffinator wrote:

that's because teens pregnant out of wedlock in Islamic countries are subject to summary execution, so it doesn't really count.

That makes no sense. They just get pregnant *inside* wedlock instead... :shrug:

Besides, very sexually permissive European countries like Denmark, Sweden, Germany and the Netherlands have even lower teen pregnancy rates than these Islamic states.

It makes perfect sense, instead of being recorded as a "teen pregnancy" they are are recorded as "justified homicide."

A high prevalence of teen pregnancy in in Islamic countries coincides with a high prevalence of teen marriage, which make pregnancy out of wedlock mostly a moot point.

Besides, so-called "justified homicide" killings can barely even make a dent in teen pregnancy rates, so they are mostly irrelevant from a statistical point of view. Such killings would have to occur at a ridiculously high frequency to be able to skew teen pregnancy rates in any noticeable manner.

For instance, Amnesty International estimates the total number of honour killings (which includes other offences than just out-of-wedlock pregnancy) in Pakistan in 2011 at less than 1,000. That is 0.018 percent of the number of annual births of almost 5.7 million in 2013. Even if the number was a 100 times higher, it still would barely even have a noticeable impact on the teen pregnancy rate.

buffinator
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15 Jan 2014, 1:08 pm

GGPViper wrote:

buffinator wrote:

GGPViper wrote:

buffinator wrote:

that's because teens pregnant out of wedlock in Islamic countries are subject to summary execution, so it doesn't really count.

That makes no sense. They just get pregnant *inside* wedlock instead... :shrug:

Besides, very sexually permissive European countries like Denmark, Sweden, Germany and the Netherlands have even lower teen pregnancy rates than these Islamic states.

It makes perfect sense, instead of being recorded as a "teen pregnancy" they are are recorded as "justified homicide."

Sorry about that, I was feeling rather depressed this morning and I get rather racist/theophobic when I'm in that state.

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LKL
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16 Jan 2014, 2:01 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

I do not support the multiple partners type of lifestyle or sex with strangers. Ideally they are encouraged to find someone they want to be with and if not, abstain completely. If they are going to be with someone and do not want to have any children, get a birth control shot. Sex is a serious business not some game. Species have sex in order to reproduce as this is often the outcome so you have to be willing to take it seriously or don't have it.

Two points: first, sex ed does not influence the number of partners one has, nor encourage kids to see sex as a game. Second, if sex in humans were just about reproduction, we wouldn't engage in it nearly as much and no visibly pregnant woman would ever get lucky. If a person wants to have (safe) sex with as many people as possible, who are you to judge? If a monogamous couple wants to have fun in the bedroom, whether they're trying to get pregnant or not, who are you to judge?

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This is the year 2014 young people know more about HIV and AIDS than their parents.

I wish. I wish that the parents knew more, and I wish that the kids knew more. The average level of knowledge about STIs, however, is abysmal and insufficient, especially in states that teach 'abstinence only.'

Quote:

A shot is the best option because it's very uncomplicated and simple. It doesn't require daily doses, you do not need to run to the store every time you need to buy it. Just go the doctor and get one shot that lasts about three months, then get another. Perfectly safe and effective. Worry free.

It's *not* "perfectly safe and effective." It has a failure rate, just like other forms of BC, and it has negative side effects, just like other forms of BC. It's basically a huge dose of hormones to fool your body into thinking that it's pregnant, and that has consequences.

Quote:

Some women do not want to discuss their clitoris with just anyone. See the problem is, you want this discussion that would make many women uncomfortable in a room full of people. Most people do not get along with everyone they go to school with or sit in a classroom with. I personally do not want to discuss my clitoris or engage in a discussion about clitorii with individuals I don't like or know because it's very personal. This is how I see it and my wishes should be respected. I know what a clitoris is, tyvm, and I didn't learn about how to orgasm at school nor do I wish to.

I don't think that kids should be taught "how to orgasm" at school either, but a lot of girls would be better off if boys didn't prevalently think that jackhammer sex was the best sex in the world for everyone concerned. As for discussion, in my high school there were a lot of *very* embarrassed teenagers and virtually no discussion. It was pretty much entirely didactic, and that suited us just fine. There was an anonymous question box for kids who wanted to ask things but were too embarrassed to say it out loud in class.

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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16 Jan 2014, 3:17 am

LKL,
The reason sex exists is for species to reproduce that is a fact. Humans have done other things with it besides that but reproduction is the primary reason that species have sex and why they started having it. It's Theory of Evolution. Species exist to reproduce themselves, make more of the same species.

Most agree limiting partners is very wise especially for younger people because they are vulnerable to stds. Just because they know about condoms doesn't mean they have them or use them. They are not adults. You are pushing way to much on them imo, expecting them to participate in these very grown up discussions. You ignore the psychological issues.

As for "jackhammer sex" people simply communicate with each other about what they want to do and then they figure it out. You don't give them enough credit and misjudge their ability to explore their own bodies. No in depth, public discussion is necessary. Just because you have no problem with it doesn't mean everyone wants to participate in such discussions. It's not up to the school to tell people how to have sex.

Schneekugel
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16 Jan 2014, 4:06 am

I think its stupid to even call that SEXual education. Its not about sex, but about normal body functions and biology. The name "sex"ual education seems to implie for many unknowing persons, that children get teached about Kamasutra positions or whatever. XD

As someone that had sexual education in school, its just as boring or interesting as every other kind of biology lessons. You learn by schematics of the existence and position of body organs, just as you do that with any other organs in biology. Then there is explanation about the different hormons and their functions im human body. Then there is specified lections about the 28 days cyclus of woman, so what kind of hormon differences causes that, why is menstruation happening, what is causing it... What is causing pregnancy, what changes of hormones are happening during pregnancy. Which leads to explanation of certain contraceptiva, so how are they working and why are they working, so that you truly understand them and dont be surprised that the DIGESTED normal pill, as example, suddenly didnt work during that month when you had puking and "fast digestion" out of sickness.

And then you have about an hour of explanation of all sorts of sh***y diseases you can get, naturally on your own (so you know, when you should go visiting a doctor - and I swear there is nothing sexy about a pic showing nothing but normal skin with an big blue bruise or other stuff ^^), or that you can get by sexual contact. Ending with the information, that out of this reasons, IF you want to have sex, you should always care to use a condom.

But you dont get to see any pics of naked persons, outer sexual organs, neither is any sexual activity described.

So the name SEXual education simply is completely wrong, because you are not told about sex in any way, but simply about normal technical and biological informations that may be linked to sex, but are not sex. The knowledge of the increase in the amount of estrogen during the 28 days of female cyclis IS NOT knowledge about practicing sex. XD

I think most people protesting against that stuff, simply have no real knowledge WHAT about they are protesting, and think that teachers are telling the kids about Kamasutra positions or whatever. ^^

Jacoby
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16 Jan 2014, 4:18 am

Schneekugel wrote:

The class I had did show pictures and had that god awful video of some hirsute woman giving birth which I'm guessing was to gross us out to the point of not wanting to ever have sex.

Schneekugel
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16 Jan 2014, 5:39 am

That US tradition of keeping memory of birth on camera, is something that I never understood. O_o

I mean I am in 4th month pregnancy alright and I am in general happy about that, but the last thing on earth that I need an lifelong documentation on video about it, is the birthing situation. "Look kids, do you want to see Mamas birth video? Oh look, thats the slime that was plugging my uterus to keep you safe from bacteria..., or alternative its Slimer from ghostbusters crawling out of Moms Mumu. XD And now thats pee and poo that comes out, because of you being so in pain, that you simply dont know exactly anymore, what you are pressing out down there. And even if you would know, you would not really care in that situation. Ooohh, and now comes the best part, when your head rips apart moms down section from anus to frontside, because of your head being to big. Someone wants hot dog with lots of dripping red and brown sauce on it? ^^"

I mean I am aware of that, and simply accept it the way it is, but showing a video documentation from it to a class of teenagers after explaining the biological stuff about it, seems for me as weird as showing them a video documentation of some wisdom teeth removal, after explaining the biological details of teeth. XD

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