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Is affirmative sexism a good thing?

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Who_Am_I
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22 Jan 2014, 6:14 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
LKL wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
LKL wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
I'd say that roughly 5% of all feminists are misandrists. I went to high school with one fairly radical (albeit not the Andrea Dworkin kind) feminist; she showed no signs of misandry and didn't seem to enjoy her female privileges. She didn't judge me because of my Asperger's syndrome either.

Misandry exists (just like misogyny does), but instead of pointing fingers, this can be solved by less rigid social conditioning in society.


So, just out of curiosity, what are "her female privileges?"

'female privileges' are the tokens of grace that patriarchal individuals toss on the floor in front of women, in exchange for women being subservient and primarily concerned with their appearances. Things like having the door held, having food payed for on a date, and so on; often it's a two-sided privilege, such as male judges (doesn't occur as much with female judges) handing out lighter sentences to women for similar crimes, with the assumption that women are less capable of controlling themselves and that women have less agency and autonomy.
In my opinion I think if a person commits a crime the person does the time regardless of gender just because the criminal is a woman doesnt make her less dangerous and the sentencing should be the same sentencing as a mans sentence! A criminal is a criminal.

I agree. Female criminals always have excuses, but so do male ones.
Quite true, but in defense for men on our part when we leave the toilet seat up we arent purposly doing it to disrespect women, we tend to do it because we get forgetful! We forget that theres a woman in the house and she pees a different way and our mind is preocupied with other junk!


Honestly, the toilet seat is really not that big of a deal. I live with my 2 brothers and we just put it the way we like it when we use the toilet.


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22 Jan 2014, 6:38 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
LKL wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
LKL wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
I'd say that roughly 5% of all feminists are misandrists. I went to high school with one fairly radical (albeit not the Andrea Dworkin kind) feminist; she showed no signs of misandry and didn't seem to enjoy her female privileges. She didn't judge me because of my Asperger's syndrome either.

Misandry exists (just like misogyny does), but instead of pointing fingers, this can be solved by less rigid social conditioning in society.


So, just out of curiosity, what are "her female privileges?"

'female privileges' are the tokens of grace that patriarchal individuals toss on the floor in front of women, in exchange for women being subservient and primarily concerned with their appearances. Things like having the door held, having food payed for on a date, and so on; often it's a two-sided privilege, such as male judges (doesn't occur as much with female judges) handing out lighter sentences to women for similar crimes, with the assumption that women are less capable of controlling themselves and that women have less agency and autonomy.
In my opinion I think if a person commits a crime the person does the time regardless of gender just because the criminal is a woman doesnt make her less dangerous and the sentencing should be the same sentencing as a mans sentence! A criminal is a criminal.

I agree. Female criminals always have excuses, but so do male ones.
Quite true, but in defense for men on our part when we leave the toilet seat up we arent purposly doing it to disrespect women, we tend to do it because we get forgetful! We forget that theres a woman in the house and she pees a different way and our mind is preocupied with other junk!


Well, it's not just that. It's also so that when we go to pee in the middle of the night, we don't end up peeing on the toilet seat.



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22 Jan 2014, 2:24 pm

Jono wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
LKL wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
LKL wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
I'd say that roughly 5% of all feminists are misandrists. I went to high school with one fairly radical (albeit not the Andrea Dworkin kind) feminist; she showed no signs of misandry and didn't seem to enjoy her female privileges. She didn't judge me because of my Asperger's syndrome either.

Misandry exists (just like misogyny does), but instead of pointing fingers, this can be solved by less rigid social conditioning in society.


So, just out of curiosity, what are "her female privileges?"

'female privileges' are the tokens of grace that patriarchal individuals toss on the floor in front of women, in exchange for women being subservient and primarily concerned with their appearances. Things like having the door held, having food payed for on a date, and so on; often it's a two-sided privilege, such as male judges (doesn't occur as much with female judges) handing out lighter sentences to women for similar crimes, with the assumption that women are less capable of controlling themselves and that women have less agency and autonomy.
In my opinion I think if a person commits a crime the person does the time regardless of gender just because the criminal is a woman doesnt make her less dangerous and the sentencing should be the same sentencing as a mans sentence! A criminal is a criminal.

I agree. Female criminals always have excuses, but so do male ones.
Quite true, but in defense for men on our part when we leave the toilet seat up we arent purposly doing it to disrespect women, we tend to do it because we get forgetful! We forget that theres a woman in the house and she pees a different way and our mind is preocupied with other junk!


Well, it's not just that. It's also so that when we go to pee in the middle of the night, we don't end up peeing on the toilet seat.
I was programmed to put the seat back down after peeing but once in a while I forget and seriously get chewed out for it and get called a inconsiderate a**hole who disrespects women. :roll: At least from my Ex when I used to live with her. So I make a big deal out of it when i do slip up when i forget and they find out I am a disgrace as a man. I know its rediculous but that is how I was brought up.


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22 Jan 2014, 5:01 pm

LKL wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
I'd say that roughly 5% of all feminists are misandrists. I went to high school with one fairly radical (albeit not the Andrea Dworkin kind) feminist; she showed no signs of misandry and didn't seem to enjoy her female privileges. She didn't judge me because of my Asperger's syndrome either.

Misandry exists (just like misogyny does), but instead of pointing fingers, this can be solved by less rigid social conditioning in society.


So, just out of curiosity, what are "her female privileges?"

'female privileges' are the tokens of grace that patriarchal individuals toss on the floor in front of women, in exchange for women being subservient and primarily concerned with their appearances. Things like having the door held, having food payed for on a date, and so on; often it's a two-sided privilege, such as male judges (doesn't occur as much with female judges) handing out lighter sentences to women for similar crimes, with the assumption that women are less capable of controlling themselves and that women have less agency and autonomy.


It's also getting a free place to live and having access to a late model BMW at college age, because a man pays for it. The very same man will also pay for it if the woman chooses to be a stay-at-home mom until the youngest child enters high school, or if she simply wants to work less to get more spare time. Lastly, it's having mental illness taken seriously, getting the privilege to study something useless instead of something difficult, getting away with serious crime (if Foxy Knoxy was a man, she'd be locked away for 30 years) and all that.



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22 Jan 2014, 6:18 pm

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/in ... 658AA8WHuq The toilet seat thing kinda reminds me of this hmmm.


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22 Jan 2014, 7:52 pm

Kurgan wrote:
LKL wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
I'd say that roughly 5% of all feminists are misandrists. I went to high school with one fairly radical (albeit not the Andrea Dworkin kind) feminist; she showed no signs of misandry and didn't seem to enjoy her female privileges. She didn't judge me because of my Asperger's syndrome either.

Misandry exists (just like misogyny does), but instead of pointing fingers, this can be solved by less rigid social conditioning in society.


So, just out of curiosity, what are "her female privileges?"

'female privileges' are the tokens of grace that patriarchal individuals toss on the floor in front of women, in exchange for women being subservient and primarily concerned with their appearances. Things like having the door held, having food payed for on a date, and so on; often it's a two-sided privilege, such as male judges (doesn't occur as much with female judges) handing out lighter sentences to women for similar crimes, with the assumption that women are less capable of controlling themselves and that women have less agency and autonomy.


It's also getting a free place to live and having access to a late model BMW at college age, because a man pays for it. The very same man will also pay for it if the woman chooses to be a stay-at-home mom until the youngest child enters high school, or if she simply wants to work less to get more spare time. Lastly, it's having mental illness taken seriously, getting the privilege to study something useless instead of something difficult, getting away with serious crime (if Foxy Knoxy was a man, she'd be locked away for 30 years) and all that.

Ha. In my dreams.

Don't know much about Amanda Knox or the study of useless subjects, but I've seen discrimination against men in the area of mental health; the patient wasn't taken seriously at all. I felt bad for the guy.


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22 Jan 2014, 7:57 pm

Quote:
It's also getting a free place to live and having access to a late model BMW at college age, because a man pays for it.


LOL, where do I find this man?
And no payment whatsoever? I don't even have to swallow?


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22 Jan 2014, 7:58 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
LKL wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
I'd say that roughly 5% of all feminists are misandrists. I went to high school with one fairly radical (albeit not the Andrea Dworkin kind) feminist; she showed no signs of misandry and didn't seem to enjoy her female privileges. She didn't judge me because of my Asperger's syndrome either.

Misandry exists (just like misogyny does), but instead of pointing fingers, this can be solved by less rigid social conditioning in society.


So, just out of curiosity, what are "her female privileges?"

'female privileges' are the tokens of grace that patriarchal individuals toss on the floor in front of women, in exchange for women being subservient and primarily concerned with their appearances. Things like having the door held, having food payed for on a date, and so on; often it's a two-sided privilege, such as male judges (doesn't occur as much with female judges) handing out lighter sentences to women for similar crimes, with the assumption that women are less capable of controlling themselves and that women have less agency and autonomy.


It's also getting a free place to live and having access to a late model BMW at college age, because a man pays for it. The very same man will also pay for it if the woman chooses to be a stay-at-home mom until the youngest child enters high school, or if she simply wants to work less to get more spare time. Lastly, it's having mental illness taken seriously, getting the privilege to study something useless instead of something difficult, getting away with serious crime (if Foxy Knoxy was a man, she'd be locked away for 30 years) and all that.

Ha. In my dreams.

Don't know much about Amanda Knox or the study of useless subjects, but I've seen discrimination against men in the area of mental health; the patient wasn't taken seriously at all. I felt bad for the guy.
That is actually not uncommon and in ways is actually acceptable in society femenists tend to over look that because it is not their own problems for they are more important on the problems women face due to patriarchal oppression. Radical feminists encourage mental abuse towards men to give themselves power to empower women.


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22 Jan 2014, 11:16 pm

It seems to me that treating a group of people in an unequal manner implies some kind of perception of inequality; the basis of discrimination. From a factual standpoint, we have evidence that men and women differ biologically. This may (or may not) have some mental impact, but we lack evidence enough to develop a model to predict accurately. As a general trend, men tend to be more physically muscular while women tend to be more physically flexible. Aside from this, we have no solid evidence to say that one gender tends to be superior at a particular criteria.

Personally, I pay attention to behavior more than appearance. My own experience is that appearance is easy to change, but personality is more challenging. So I try to give people some benefit of the doubt and most of the time I fail to notice if a person is old/young, male/female, gay/straight, minority/majority(?), or other.

I sum it up in two rules I live by.
1. If somebody punches me, I'll hit them back.
2. Never throw the first punch.


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22 Jan 2014, 11:51 pm

Browncoat wrote:
It seems to me that treating a group of people in an unequal manner implies some kind of perception of inequality; the basis of discrimination. From a factual standpoint, we have evidence that men and women differ biologically. This may (or may not) have some mental impact, but we lack evidence enough to develop a model to predict accurately. As a general trend, men tend to be more physically muscular while women tend to be more physically flexible. Aside from this, we have no solid evidence to say that one gender tends to be superior at a particular criteria.

Personally, I pay attention to behavior more than appearance. My own experience is that appearance is easy to change, but personality is more challenging. So I try to give people some benefit of the doubt and most of the time I fail to notice if a person is old/young, male/female, gay/straight, minority/majority(?), or other.

I sum it up in two rules I live by.
1. If somebody punches me, I'll hit them back.
2. Never throw the first punch.
Im the same way but only when it comes to other men if a woman hits me I tend to fold over and not hit back I was programmed not to hit women even if they are hitting me or even chasing me with a kitchen knife.


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23 Jan 2014, 2:36 am

Kurgan wrote:
LKL wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
I'd say that roughly 5% of all feminists are misandrists. I went to high school with one fairly radical (albeit not the Andrea Dworkin kind) feminist; she showed no signs of misandry and didn't seem to enjoy her female privileges. She didn't judge me because of my Asperger's syndrome either.

Misandry exists (just like misogyny does), but instead of pointing fingers, this can be solved by less rigid social conditioning in society.


So, just out of curiosity, what are "her female privileges?"

'female privileges' are the tokens of grace that patriarchal individuals toss on the floor in front of women, in exchange for women being subservient and primarily concerned with their appearances. Things like having the door held, having food payed for on a date, and so on; often it's a two-sided privilege, such as male judges (doesn't occur as much with female judges) handing out lighter sentences to women for similar crimes, with the assumption that women are less capable of controlling themselves and that women have less agency and autonomy.

It's also getting a free place to live and having access to a late model BMW at college age, because a man pays for it.

*snort*
Honey, that's not 'female privilege,' that's 'sugar baby privilege.'
Quote:
The very same man will also pay for it if the woman chooses to be a stay-at-home mom until the youngest child enters high school, or if she simply wants to work less to get more spare time.

You think watching your own brain rot from lack of contact with adults is a privilege? Cleaning up vomit, urine, and feces is a privilege? Watching your body stretch into new, painful, and strange forms, and then blow up like a baloon, is a privilege?
News Flash: a lot of the feminist movement was to **get away** from this supposed 'privilege.' There may be some women who like it, but a hell of a lot of us don't.
Quote:
Lastly, it's having mental illness taken seriously, getting the privilege to study something useless instead of something difficult, getting away with serious crime (if Foxy Knoxy was a man, she'd be locked away for 30 years) and all that.

Because having a mental disorder named after the defining organ of your gender is soooo empowering? (/sarcasm)
Because 'philosophy' is useful? (look up the gender composition of philosophy depts. someday).
Because patriarchal judges denying women agency is somehow a 'privilege'?



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23 Jan 2014, 3:03 am

LKL wrote:
Because patriarchal judges denying women agency is somehow a 'privilege'?


You seem stuck on that as the reason why women receive favorable treatment in the courts, and I don't think it's what's really happening. Have you heard of this [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/“Women_are_wonderful”_effect[/url]?

I know, a link to a wikipedia article hardly counts as a source, but I'm not gonna pay money to access the sources it cites. But here are a few relevant quotes from the abstracts.

From Are Women Evaluated More Favorably Than Men?: An Analysis of Attitudes, Beliefs, and Emotions. link.

"analysis of respondents' attitudes... established that they evaluated women more favorably than men."

"This research, therefore, provides strong evidence that women are evaluated quite favorably—in fact, more favorably than men."

From Are People Prejudiced Against Women? Some Answers From Research on Attitudes, Gender Stereotypes, and Judgments of Competence. link.

"In contemporary research, attitudes toward women appear to be more positive than those toward men... and the evaluative content of the female stereotype is more favorable than the evaluative content of the male stereotype."

From Gender Differences in Automatic In-Group Bias: Why Do Women Like Women More Than Men Like Men?. link.

"Experiments 2 and 3 found pro-female bias to the extent that participants automatically favored their mothers over their fathers or associated male gender with violence"


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23 Jan 2014, 6:09 am

LKL wrote:
*snort*
Honey, that's not 'female privilege,' that's 'sugar baby privilege.'


If you're a man, you won't get that privelege unless you're very good looking and the woman is 20 years older than you.
Quote:
You think watching your own brain rot from lack of contact with adults is a privilege? Cleaning up vomit, urine, and feces is a privilege? Watching your body stretch into new, painful, and strange forms, and then blow up like a baloon, is a privilege?


A lot of women in Norway actually work less to get more time to socialize, which is indeed a privilege.

Quote:
News Flash: a lot of the feminist movement was to **get away** from this supposed 'privilege.' There may be some women who like it, but a hell of a lot of us don't.


I didn't blame feminism for it. Heartless b*****s has an article about this, for instance.

Quote:
Because having a mental disorder named after the defining organ of your gender is soooo empowering? (/sarcasm)


Getting diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome when you don't have it, and then get disability benefits at the age of 20 is. Getting to write a whine-blog on the internet and have everyone tell you how courageous you is, is another example as well. A last, great example of privilege, is being allowed to take a sick leave for minor stuff. If a man actually has CFS, fibromyalgia, depression, anxiety and stuff like that, he's expected to suck it up.

Quote:
Because 'philosophy' is useful? (look up the gender composition of philosophy depts. someday).


Who said anything about philosophy? I agree that there could be more female philosophers and scientists.

Quote:
Because patriarchal judges denying women agency is somehow a 'privilege'?


Getting away with crime because of a perceived stereotype is a privilege.



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23 Jan 2014, 6:20 pm

Quote:
A lot of women in Norway actually work less to get more time to socialize, which is indeed a privilege.


Didn't you say to someone in another thread that they should be thankful that they can get sex without having to talk?
Is socialising good, or not?

Quote:
Getting diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome when you don't have it, and then get disability benefits at the age of 20 is. Getting to write a whine-blog on the internet and have everyone tell you how courageous you is, is another example as well. A last, great example of privilege, is being allowed to take a sick leave for minor stuff. If a man actually has CFS, fibromyalgia, depression, anxiety and stuff like that, he's expected to suck it up.


Links, please. I'm sure you will have the information to prove that it actually happens, and to prove that the people in question didn't actually have said illnesses.

Oh, and if we're throwing around anecdotes, I know a guy who got on disability for social anxiety, whereas I have a permanent autism spectrum disorder and just get told that I'm smart and to figure things out for myself.


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24 Jan 2014, 2:18 am

mds_02 wrote:
LKL wrote:
Because patriarchal judges denying women agency is somehow a 'privilege'?

You seem stuck on that as the reason why women receive favorable treatment in the courts, and I don't think it's what's really happening. Have you heard of this [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/“Women_are_wonderful”_effect[/url]?

No, I hadn't heard of it. It directly contradicts a lot of research I've seen:
http://www.albany.edu/~scifraud/data/sc ... _3943.html
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/20 ... lands-job/
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/01/opinion/u ... n-science/
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/25/scien ... .html?_r=0
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/20 ... -of-school
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/uno ... t-matters/
http://advance.cornell.edu/documents/ImpactofGender.pdf
http://curt-rice.com/2011/11/02/peer-ev ... law-firms/
http://www.learnvest.com/2013/11/asking ... m-you-123/
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101229711
http://www.ibtimes.com/women-ask-raises ... udy-394556

Quote:
"analysis of respondents' attitudes... established that they evaluated women more favorably than men."
"This research, therefore, provides strong evidence that women are evaluated quite favorably—in fact, more favorably than men."

Given the above, I have to ask: 'evaluated more favorably than men... by what criteria?' There are some obvious areas: child-rearing,, modesty, etc. which are 'traditional' feminine values, and where 'higher' scores by women wouldn't exactly be surprising, but also don't exactly support the original idea that male judges can be patriarchal and deny women's agency.

Quote:
"Experiments 2 and 3 found pro-female bias to the extent that participants automatically favored their mothers over their fathers or associated male gender with violence"

sad, but not surprising that, in a nation where women are still the primary caretakers, people would view their primary caretakers more highly. If men were allowed by themselves and society to participate more in child-rearing, this might change.

Someone else made a claim on another thread that female judges treat female defendants more harshly than male judges do, but I couldn't find any evidence one way or the other.



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24 Jan 2014, 2:33 am

Kurgan wrote:
LKL wrote:
*snort*
Honey, that's not 'female privilege,' that's 'sugar baby privilege.'

If you're a man, you won't get that privelege unless you're very good looking and the woman is 20 years older than you.

*snort*
Are you suggesting that the average female sugar baby isn't very good looking, and isn't much younger than her male sugar daddy?
Quote:
Quote:
You think watching your own brain rot from lack of contact with adults is a privilege? Cleaning up vomit, urine, and feces is a privilege? Watching your body stretch into new, painful, and strange forms, and then blow up like a baloon, is a privilege?

A lot of women in Norway actually work less to get more time to socialize, which is indeed a privilege.

Evidence, please, that women in Norway's work schedules are driven by "socializing."
Quote:
Quote:
News Flash: a lot of the feminist movement was to **get away** from this supposed 'privilege.' There may be some women who like it, but a hell of a lot of us don't.

I didn't blame feminism for it. Heartless b*****s has an article about this, for instance.

"Is it just my imagination or..."
Isn't a good way for an argument about numbers to start.
Quote:
Quote:
Because having a mental disorder named after the defining organ of your gender is soooo empowering? (/sarcasm)

Getting diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome when you don't have it...

Evidence, please, that women commit fraud on the SSDI system more than men do?
Quote:
Getting to write a whine-blog on the internet and have everyone tell you how courageous you is, is another example as well....

'Cause men don't whine on the internet? 'Cause men don't talk about how great they are on the internet? 'Cause blogging is lucrative?
Quote:
A last, great example of privilege, is being allowed to take a sick leave for minor stuff. If a man actually has CFS, fibromyalgia, depression, anxiety and stuff like that, he's expected to suck it up.

Evidence, please, that men expose their co-workers to communicable diseases more than women do, by working when they should stay home? Evidence that men defraud their employers by showing up when they're not in a condition to work, regardless of whether their illnesses are communicable?

If that is true, then I absolutely agree that it should change.
Quote:
Quote:
Because 'philosophy' is useful? (look up the gender composition of philosophy depts. someday).

Who said anything about philosophy?

I did, because you were talking about useless degrees. A degree in philosophy isn't much good unless you want to either teach philosophy, or go on to get a different degree in something else.
Quote:
Getting away with crime because of a perceived stereotype is a privilege.

It's great for that individual woman in the short-term, but it's worse for women as a whole and possibly worse for her in the long term.