Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
30 Jan 2014, 11:53 pm
auntblabby wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
You gotta hand it to the Republicans using guns, "christian values" and fear of foreigners, gays and socialism to persuade a large swathe of Americans who would always be better off under a Democrat government.
h.l. Mencken said "no one every went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."
You know, ironically enough, one of H.L. Mencken's biggest fans was Ayn Rand.
30 Jan 2014, 11:54 pm
auntblabby wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
You gotta hand it to the Republicans using guns, "christian values" and fear of foreigners, gays and socialism to persuade a large swathe of Americans who would always be better off under a Democrat government.
h.l. Mencken said "no one every went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."
to be frank Aussies aren't much better
auntblabby
Veteran
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 115,219
Location: the island of defective toy santas
30 Jan 2014, 11:57 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
You gotta hand it to the Republicans using guns, "christian values" and fear of foreigners, gays and socialism to persuade a large swathe of Americans who would always be better off under a Democrat government.
h.l. Mencken said "no one every went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."
You know, ironically enough, one of H.L. Mencken's biggest fans was Ayn Rand.
they both had an abiding disgust with the lower classes.
auntblabby
Veteran
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 115,219
Location: the island of defective toy santas
30 Jan 2014, 11:59 pm
cyberdad wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
You gotta hand it to the Republicans using guns, "christian values" and fear of foreigners, gays and socialism to persuade a large swathe of Americans who would always be better off under a Democrat government.
h.l. Mencken said "no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."
to be frank Aussies aren't much betterbut at least your nation is wise and compassionate enough to have instituted universal health care decades before America even thought about it.
31 Jan 2014, 12:00 am
31 Jan 2014, 1:18 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
^^^
Sure, it's better to be gainfully employed. But how is that possible when big business has been allowed to outsource American jobs - because of the complaint that Americans want too much money and benefits? And how is being gainfully employed possible when so many of the remaining jobs are underpaid fast food and other service jobs? I would think that supporters of capitalism should agree that big business should be willing to take a hit for the good of the American people - but they don't. So far, only the rich are getting richer, while ordinary Americans have been left behind, and have no choice but to seek help from "Uncle Sugar."
Sure, it's better to be gainfully employed. But how is that possible when big business has been allowed to outsource American jobs - because of the complaint that Americans want too much money and benefits? And how is being gainfully employed possible when so many of the remaining jobs are underpaid fast food and other service jobs? I would think that supporters of capitalism should agree that big business should be willing to take a hit for the good of the American people - but they don't. So far, only the rich are getting richer, while ordinary Americans have been left behind, and have no choice but to seek help from "Uncle Sugar."
Even in the best of times the left complains about big business. Always have, always will. That aside, keep in mind that several foreign big businesses have set up shop in the USA that at one time wouldn’t have. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes, to name just a few common household names. They employ a shi+load of people.
cyberdad wrote:
Raptor wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Raptor wrote:
healthcare and education is free
If it costs then it's not free and it is gonna cost.
If it costs then it's not free and it is gonna cost.
Agreed it will cost, but it's a sign of a healthy society when it's able to look after it's own
TANSTAAFL (There Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch)
Somebody’s gotta pay for it. Besides, having it all free stifles competition which is not good for quality purposes.
I think this is the crux of the argument put forward by supporters of US republican and other conservative western governments around the world. Social equality and social protection costs "money". Plenty of studies in socialist leaning countries such as Sweden or Denmark indicating investment in social welfare reduces crime and creates a relatively more safer country.
I really can't imagine how the Republican party could appeal to working class Americans when it's powerbase is corporations that regularly outsource and make use of cheap offshore labour undercutting hard working Americans. We have the same stupid people here in Australia who blindly support conservative governments despite never getting any tax concessions, no workplace protection or job security and they end up paying more for cost of living despite struggling to make ends meet.
And then there are the democrats who are against ANY business.
Well, someone's gotta work to pay for all the sugar tits that are handed out.
Quote:
You gotta hand it to the Republicans using guns, "christian values" and fear of foreigners, gays and socialism to persuade a large swathe of Americans who would always be better off under a Democrat government.
Comparatively few people are actually as enamored with the republican platform as you'd like to have us think. Like myself, most of them see the GOP as a lesser evil and little more.
Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
You gotta hand it to the Republicans using guns, "christian values" and fear of foreigners, gays and socialism to persuade a large swathe of Americans who would always be better off under a Democrat government.
h.l. Mencken said "no one every went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."
You know, ironically enough, one of H.L. Mencken's biggest fans was Ayn Rand.
Still advertising and endorsing those Rand books, eh?
Are you getting a sales commission for them?
You oughta be.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
31 Jan 2014, 1:26 am
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
^^^
Sure, it's better to be gainfully employed. But how is that possible when big business has been allowed to outsource American jobs - because of the complaint that Americans want too much money and benefits? And how is being gainfully employed possible when so many of the remaining jobs are underpaid fast food and other service jobs? I would think that supporters of capitalism should agree that big business should be willing to take a hit for the good of the American people - but they don't. So far, only the rich are getting richer, while ordinary Americans have been left behind, and have no choice but to seek help from "Uncle Sugar."
Sure, it's better to be gainfully employed. But how is that possible when big business has been allowed to outsource American jobs - because of the complaint that Americans want too much money and benefits? And how is being gainfully employed possible when so many of the remaining jobs are underpaid fast food and other service jobs? I would think that supporters of capitalism should agree that big business should be willing to take a hit for the good of the American people - but they don't. So far, only the rich are getting richer, while ordinary Americans have been left behind, and have no choice but to seek help from "Uncle Sugar."
Even in the best of times the left complains about big business. Always have, always will. That aside, keep in mind that several foreign big businesses have set up shop in the USA that at one time wouldn’t have. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes, to name just a few common household names. They employ a shi+load of people.
cyberdad wrote:
Raptor wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Raptor wrote:
healthcare and education is free
If it costs then it's not free and it is gonna cost.
If it costs then it's not free and it is gonna cost.
Agreed it will cost, but it's a sign of a healthy society when it's able to look after it's own
TANSTAAFL (There Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch)
Somebody’s gotta pay for it. Besides, having it all free stifles competition which is not good for quality purposes.
I think this is the crux of the argument put forward by supporters of US republican and other conservative western governments around the world. Social equality and social protection costs "money". Plenty of studies in socialist leaning countries such as Sweden or Denmark indicating investment in social welfare reduces crime and creates a relatively more safer country.
I really can't imagine how the Republican party could appeal to working class Americans when it's powerbase is corporations that regularly outsource and make use of cheap offshore labour undercutting hard working Americans. We have the same stupid people here in Australia who blindly support conservative governments despite never getting any tax concessions, no workplace protection or job security and they end up paying more for cost of living despite struggling to make ends meet.
And then there are the democrats who are against ANY business.
Well, someone's gotta work to pay for all the sugar tits that are handed out.
Quote:
You gotta hand it to the Republicans using guns, "christian values" and fear of foreigners, gays and socialism to persuade a large swathe of Americans who would always be better off under a Democrat government.
Comparatively few people are actually as enamored with the republican platform as you'd like to have us think. Like myself, most of them see the GOP as a lesser evil and little more.
Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
You gotta hand it to the Republicans using guns, "christian values" and fear of foreigners, gays and socialism to persuade a large swathe of Americans who would always be better off under a Democrat government.
h.l. Mencken said "no one every went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."
You know, ironically enough, one of H.L. Mencken's biggest fans was Ayn Rand.
Still advertising and endorsing those Rand books, eh?
Are you getting a sales commission for them?
You oughta be.
Don't you remember? You've already outed me a Rand's publisher's agent!
31 Jan 2014, 1:40 am
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
31 Jan 2014, 1:45 am
TheGoggles wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
^^^
Even in the best of times the left complains about big business. Always have, always will.
Even in the best of times the left complains about big business. Always have, always will.
Haha, implying that there was a "best time" in America.
Quote:
And then there are the democrats who are against ANY business.
Well, someone's gotta work to pay for all the sugar tits that are handed out.
Well, someone's gotta work to pay for all the sugar tits that are handed out.
Strawman. Also, that phrase you used. I don't think it means what you think it means.
! !! !! !! !
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
31 Jan 2014, 1:46 am
31 Jan 2014, 3:50 pm
31 Jan 2014, 11:23 pm
auntblabby wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
You gotta hand it to the Republicans using guns, "christian values" and fear of foreigners, gays and socialism to persuade a large swathe of Americans who would always be better off under a Democrat government.
h.l. Mencken said "no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."
to be frank Aussies aren't much betterbut at least your nation is wise and compassionate enough to have instituted universal health care decades before America even thought about it.
Australia introduced universal healthcare in 1984 when it's total population was only 15 million and the proportion of taxpaying workers to retirees was larger, Today we have a population of 24 million with a substantially larger retiree population that is putting great financial strain on the healthcare system so right wing types have crawled out of the wood work to herald the demise of universal healthcare in Australia.
auntblabby
Veteran
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 115,219
Location: the island of defective toy santas
31 Jan 2014, 11:26 pm
cyberdad wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
You gotta hand it to the Republicans using guns, "christian values" and fear of foreigners, gays and socialism to persuade a large swathe of Americans who would always be better off under a Democrat government.
h.l. Mencken said "no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."
to be frank Aussies aren't much betterbut at least your nation is wise and compassionate enough to have instituted universal health care decades before America even thought about it.
Australia introduced universal healthcare in 1984 when it's total population was only 15 million and the proportion of taxpaying workers to retirees was larger, Today we have a population of 24 million with a substantially larger retiree population that is putting great financial strain on the healthcare system so right wing types have crawled out of the wood work to herald the demise of universal healthcare in Australia.
sorry, I had no idea that your population was less than that of Canada. I hope you are able to repel the troglodytes as long as possible.
01 Feb 2014, 10:30 pm
auntblabby wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
You gotta hand it to the Republicans using guns, "christian values" and fear of foreigners, gays and socialism to persuade a large swathe of Americans who would always be better off under a Democrat government.
h.l. Mencken said "no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."
to be frank Aussies aren't much betterbut at least your nation is wise and compassionate enough to have instituted universal health care decades before America even thought about it.
Australia introduced universal healthcare in 1984 when it's total population was only 15 million and the proportion of taxpaying workers to retirees was larger, Today we have a population of 24 million with a substantially larger retiree population that is putting great financial strain on the healthcare system so right wing types have crawled out of the wood work to herald the demise of universal healthcare in Australia.
sorry, I had no idea that your population was less than that of Canada. I hope you are able to repel the troglodytes as long as possible.
Australia has two forms of medical subsidy. The first is Medicare which essentially subsidizes both medical services (state government) and pharmaceuticals. The second is the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme (PBS) which subsidises the cost of medication of drugs that a taken as prophylactics or preventative medication for health or mental conditions that require medication.
However, most people want to make use of private hospitals which charge full fees then you need private health insurance and depending on specialist services (surgery, Psychs, physio, dental etc) you may still have to pay a "gap" to cover the shortfall that private health insurance does not cover.
The troglodytes you refer to are selfish creatures in the top 25% of income earners who whinge over paying too much taxes. Public health protection has always been a target of this group as they feel they should not have to subsidize the health of poorer folk. Their mantra is if you want to have good health then the individual must pay...i.e. user pay.
auntblabby
Veteran
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 115,219
Location: the island of defective toy santas
01 Feb 2014, 11:06 pm
02 Feb 2014, 1:27 am
