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Victims are shunned upon

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techstepgenr8tion
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14 Feb 2014, 8:40 pm

Being in a position of technical-victim happens to all kinds of people all the time, albeit guys have a harder time admitting it because 'victim' and 'mark' sound incredibly close - ie. being the one weaker isn't something to admit to often unless you want to be victimized more and more.

That said I'd agree that there are haywire dynamics in society (including the one I mentioned above). I'm also sickened when people who seemed to really get fired up about truth almost start laughing you off and acting like you're just being TOO objective if you point certain things out. Clearly when racism shows it's ugly head it's disgusting. When sexism shows its ugly head it's disgusting. When religious descrimination props it's ugly head it's disgusting. When preference discrimination shows it's disgusting.

At the same time you have certain people who like to try to make people feel like they're far more 'victim' than they are, to make them feel far more disempowered, feel like there's far more of an us-vs-them, and those people quite often are using that dynamic to either fuel their own wealth or alternately fuel a subversive political agenda that has nothing to do with empowering the people in question. In that case the people who try to create victim groups and victim culture are just putting it in their other end and victimizing them twice.

The problem with common denominator 'poppy' or polite conversation (ie. staying away from the DEEP stuff that would clear the room heaven forbid) is that people want one extreme or the other, they want it easy, they want to level of discourse to reflect a third to fifth grade reading and comprehension level, and hence to declare the full complexities that both too much is made of victimhood by some and the problems causing the real thing too little by others is just too nuanced and boring for most people's tastes. Just like with movies and wanting lots of boobs and explosions, they want it all real clear and iconoclastic. Sucks doesn't it.



LKL
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14 Feb 2014, 10:47 pm

Raptor wrote:
I find that people suffering from a debilitating physical injury/illness or actual (as opposed to superficial or fake) mental disability tend to harp on their situation less than the ones who had a hand in or knowingly created their mess or the ones who whine incessantly about common adversities that any person might typically have to deal with at some point in their lives.
I've definitely screwed myself a number of times and dealt with common adversities, but I generally never dump them on anyone else. Why? Because no one else gives a shi+.
:shrug:

If you have a physical or mental disability, there isn't much anyone can do about it whether they want to or not. If you're disadvantaged by cultural factors, on the other hand, then peoples' behavior affects your degree of disadvantage pretty profoundly.



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15 Feb 2014, 1:40 pm

LKL wrote:
Raptor wrote:
I find that people suffering from a debilitating physical injury/illness or actual (as opposed to superficial or fake) mental disability tend to harp on their situation less than the ones who had a hand in or knowingly created their mess or the ones who whine incessantly about common adversities that any person might typically have to deal with at some point in their lives.
I've definitely screwed myself a number of times and dealt with common adversities, but I generally never dump them on anyone else. Why? Because no one else gives a shi+.
:shrug:

If you have a physical or mental disability, there isn't much anyone can do about it whether they want to or not. If you're disadvantaged by cultural factors, on the other hand, then peoples' behavior affects your degree of disadvantage pretty profoundly.


wut?
Call me obtuse but for the life of me I can't figure out what your saying in response to what I said and how it relates.
Did you even read my post or did you automatically assume that anything I write is rife with condescension, snarkyness, trollery, personal attacks, incivility, rudeness, dog whistles, red herrings, and straw men? :twisted:


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donnie_darko
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17 Feb 2014, 8:02 am

I disagree. I think victims are glorified as heroes even if they don't really deserve to be.



beneficii
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17 Feb 2014, 8:41 am

LKL wrote:
Raptor wrote:
I find that people suffering from a debilitating physical injury/illness or actual (as opposed to superficial or fake) mental disability tend to harp on their situation less than the ones who had a hand in or knowingly created their mess or the ones who whine incessantly about common adversities that any person might typically have to deal with at some point in their lives.
I've definitely screwed myself a number of times and dealt with common adversities, but I generally never dump them on anyone else. Why? Because no one else gives a shi+.
:shrug:

If you have a physical or mental disability, there isn't much anyone can do about it whether they want to or not. If you're disadvantaged by cultural factors, on the other hand, then peoples' behavior affects your degree of disadvantage pretty profoundly.


Exactly. That is where privilege comes in.


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cubedemon6073
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17 Feb 2014, 10:14 am

zer0netgain wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
We live in a society (USA) where if your life isn't how you wish it to be or if something bad happens to you, you are a "victim" of someone else's bad act.

Sometimes this is true, but in most every situation, the "victim" bears some of the blame. Sometimes, the "victim" is to blame for their own mess.


Do you have any evidence to support your claim that in most every situation the victim bears some of the blame?


Life itself bears it out. Rarely does anything happen in a social vacuum. Yes, people can do bad things to an innocent victim, but when something happens between two people, typically both bear some of the blame. One might still be more "to blame" than the other, but if you refuse to examine your own choices and recognize where you may have acted poorly, you won't learn anything from the experience except how to blame someone else for your misfortune.

I've been bullied on the job. I can say it was all the other guy's fault, but the truth is that there were things I did wrong. Maybe they were done in response to his "pushing my buttons," but it's not like I wasn't warned about him before I started there. I should have been more on my guard, documented things better, gone to the right people with incriminating documentation earlier, etc. Instead, I did just what I was warned not to do, and he played me like a fiddle.

Yeah, you could say it was all him, but if I refuse to learn from it, I'll just have to go through it again with someone else.


Okay, I take issue with what you say and here is why. Your choices were made by you with the knowledge and assumptions that you have about many things. If your mindset caused you to make certain choices that led to negative outcomes then is it logically possible to use this same mindset to self-reflect on himself to make better choices?



beneficii
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17 Feb 2014, 10:44 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
We live in a society (USA) where if your life isn't how you wish it to be or if something bad happens to you, you are a "victim" of someone else's bad act.

Sometimes this is true, but in most every situation, the "victim" bears some of the blame. Sometimes, the "victim" is to blame for their own mess.


Do you have any evidence to support your claim that in most every situation the victim bears some of the blame?


Life itself bears it out. Rarely does anything happen in a social vacuum. Yes, people can do bad things to an innocent victim, but when something happens between two people, typically both bear some of the blame. One might still be more "to blame" than the other, but if you refuse to examine your own choices and recognize where you may have acted poorly, you won't learn anything from the experience except how to blame someone else for your misfortune.

I've been bullied on the job. I can say it was all the other guy's fault, but the truth is that there were things I did wrong. Maybe they were done in response to his "pushing my buttons," but it's not like I wasn't warned about him before I started there. I should have been more on my guard, documented things better, gone to the right people with incriminating documentation earlier, etc. Instead, I did just what I was warned not to do, and he played me like a fiddle.

Yeah, you could say it was all him, but if I refuse to learn from it, I'll just have to go through it again with someone else.


I am certainly not talking about something happening between two people, where they both acted poorly...I've had situations like that and I don't feel either party is a 'victim' in that case. For instance me and my brother have got into arguments...but that was a case of both of us being a bit immature so it was both our fault making neither of us a victim.

Also though in my experience there was no solution to the bullying....and I spent a lot of time blaming it on myself. All I learned was no matter what you do they just wont stop. Tried minding my own business, standing up for myself, ignoring them, trying to get help from staff/teachers even tried acting 'normal'. So yeah I don't put blame on myself for the bullying...as I don't feel there is an excuse for such behavior. If I got a job and was warned an employee there had a tendency to bully people, I'd do my best to avoid them......but somehow I am thinking my coming off as unusual and nervous would draw them in despite my efforts. Also perhaps you could have handled the situation better and more effectively but I fail to see how that indicates you share some of the blame for being bullied as ultimately it was their choice to act in a harassing manner towards others.


Exactly. This blame-the-victim mentality is absolutely toxic and will make this society into the law of the jungle.


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