What to do about "failing men?"

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What to do about America's "failing men?"

Let them fail.	10%	[ 3 ]
Increase the minimum wage.	24%	[ 7 ]
Reduce or eliminate the minimum wage	0%	[ 0 ]
Massively expand the military	7%	[ 2 ]
Public works projects	14%	[ 4 ]
Incarcerate more of them	0%	[ 0 ]
Curtail immigration	3%	[ 1 ]
Increase immigration	0%	[ 0 ]
Increase trade	0%	[ 0 ]
Curtail trade	0%	[ 0 ]
Remove women from the paid workforce	7%	[ 2 ]
Take away video games and porn	0%	[ 0 ]
Make church attendance and Bible study mandatory	0%	[ 0 ]
Turn the country into a Libertarian dictatorship	3%	[ 1 ]
Distribute guns to everyone	10%	[ 3 ]
Legalize prostitution	3%	[ 1 ]
Reduce the retirement age	3%	[ 1 ]
Increase the retirement age	0%	[ 0 ]
Other (specify)	14%	[ 4 ]

Total votes : 29

ArrantPariah
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21 Mar 2014, 7:26 pm

Here is Phil Zimbardo

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMJgZ4s2E3w[/youtube]

Apparently we're playing too many video games and watching too much porn.

ArrantPariah
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21 Mar 2014, 7:28 pm

And, according to this chap

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSF82AwSDiU[/youtube]

we're watching FAR too much porn for our own good.

mr_bigmouth_502
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22 Mar 2014, 1:20 am

ArrantPariah wrote:

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

If you want more guys to work, give them more of an incentive to work by increasing the minimum wage. If you don't earn more from working than you do from going on welfare, then there's really no point in working.

As well, legalizing and regulating prostitution would be a good thing to do, as people are going to sell their bodies for sex anyway, so they may as well do it in a legal and safe manner.

That will also give the guys an incentive to work: something to spend their money on.

YEAH!

Another illegal-but-popular thing they could legalize to stimulate the economy would be marijuana. While I don't consider it to be "harmless" like many legalization advocates do, it's less harmful than tobacco and alcohol overall, and there's really no point in keeping it illegal. Keeping it illegal just keeps the money in the hands of drug smugglers and gangsters, and not where it could actually be doing some good.

I mean, let's be realistic, wouldn't it be awesome to be paid more than enough to get by at a minimum-wage job, AND have enough left over to smoke some completely-legal weed and have some "fun" with a completely-legal hooker?

People would actually be happy with their lives for once.

ArrantPariah
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22 Mar 2014, 7:56 am

Chris Rock raises a good point.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hpYQsckWno[/youtube]

Women want everything. Men want food, sex and silence. Going out and courting a woman can be a major hassle and a lot of trouble. Plus, most of us will experience more failures than successes. And, the Feminists like to emphasize that "sex is not an entitlement!" If we somehow succeed in finding a woman who is willing to participate in coitus, then we won't be getting any silence, unless she's mad. With our internet porn, we can get our dopamine rush, and then we can enjoy the silence.

A man is perfectly happy, as long as he has a cheap place to stay, some food, and a high-speed internet connection. Striving for anything more is just a waste of effort, and drags us away from the computer.

The women can go ahead and knock themselves out to buy a big house in the suburbs, the latest fashions, the luxury car, the classy furniture, etc. etc.

The men finally have life figured out.

aghogday
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22 Mar 2014, 9:15 am

ArrantPariah wrote:

Yup i think world peace is in reach..

And what you just said is the hilarious simple truth of life..if a person gets those simple needs fulfilled they can be at peace...and yes it seems to be easier for men to
get that fulfillment in life than women ...from my personal experience....and my wife isn't nearly as happy as i am..just having the simple pleasures of life..

without shopping..
i do not know how she would could obtain happiness....although i give her suggestions....marital bliss and all of that ..after 24 years...

But anyway...who wants to go to war..when there are '72,000' willing virgin 'like' women..waiting for 'em online..never ever never ever saying no....just gotta get all that porn
freely distributed in those 'other' countries..

When the treasure is free..one has to find a new treasure....to seek..

Anyway..i'm glad porn was not around when i was young..but that is not to say i would not have enjoyed my fair share of it..

Penthouse wasn't something very addictive...

But HI-DEF porn..IS an incredible dopamine rush for males..and yes!..a rising one for many females too...

But used wisely it can be an excellent medicinal drug..:)

i use it wisely..;) and provide it too...in my own little 'slightly' erotic way...two winks..there...

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Last edited by aghogday on 22 Mar 2014, 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

techstepgenr8tion
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22 Mar 2014, 9:24 am

Meh, on the gender relations issue - I think the new liberated woman is going to have to realize that we're headed back toward a matriarchy in so many ways (something Western civilization is too new to remember), that at the 80% pay they're going to price men right out of the work world quite often aside from those men who have the makings of a sole proprietor, and that if men get displaced from the work world they're either looking at a) flipping roles and taking us in on their own terms or b) having to find some governmental manner of aiding/assisting the guys who the trends in the workplace have left behind.

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22 Mar 2014, 9:37 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Yes..i agree and think that matriarchy overall is a better way..as it reduces the strife that comes from male competition..for mates...

And i really do think..that in many ways..that our liberated sexual mores..are helping the culture head that way..

Not unlike the bonobo...porn is like a sexual handshake for the culture overall..in a virtual way..and even better as it is disease free...

But unfortunately our increasing nomadic way of life..makes it difficult to effectively make this happen..as an extended family is necessary for
matriarchy to work..unless society can effectively make a way for the village to raise the child..

I guess welfare is an approximation of this..but it definitely does not meet or nearly fulfill the full emotional needs of the child..to be exposed to the masculine
and feminine element in the developmental stage of youth..in determining self worth and social roles...single mothers cannot reasonably provide all of this...

It appears that the road is going to get much tougher to attempt to end emotional human suffering..but potentially there will be substantial amounts of basic
subsistence..for folks to just survive..

But as they say..man or woman does not live by 'bread' alone....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4PPfaTTTJ4[/youtube]

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Last edited by aghogday on 22 Mar 2014, 9:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

ArrantPariah
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22 Mar 2014, 9:38 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

flipping roles and taking us in on their own terms .

I wonder what their terms are going to be?

If the government is going to take care of us, then we won't need them. But, if the government won't take care of us, then we'll be entirely at their mercy. This can get scary to contemplate.

techstepgenr8tion
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22 Mar 2014, 9:44 am

ArrantPariah wrote:

Truly. Too many I've met have a LOT of growing up to do.

aghogday
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22 Mar 2014, 9:45 am

ArrantPariah wrote:

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

flipping roles and taking us in on their own terms .

i truly think we can look to Japan for those answers in the future..

In fact..if one looks at many internet conversations..it is clear that there is a great deal of male resentment against the changing roles of domination of women..

Matriarchy in it's pure form..if there is such a thing..is about cooperation..and reducing strife..

What we have now really does increasingly reflect John Calhoun's behavioral sink experiment..

Extinction..probably not..there are just too many of us..and the patriarchal ways..that are effective for basic reproduction and survival..do still thrive in many countries...

But the population will continue to go down..in western countries..where social roles are no longer clearly defined..and particularly where there are not effective avenues for
immigrants of the patriarchal element..per example of the Mexican Roman Catholic element in the US..and the African Muslim element in Europe...

Many people..now.. basically do not know who they are..in metaphor and truth..that is a hard place for a social animal to be..

And part of the reason rates of suicide are higher in these countries..it's probably the hardest place for a social animal to be..overall..

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ArrantPariah
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22 Mar 2014, 10:03 am

There are ladies who wonder whither the good men have gone.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRikFf7rSeI[/youtube]

techstepgenr8tion
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22 Mar 2014, 10:08 am

I'll put it like this - the stereotyping of guys as depraved sex fiends has gotten out of control. As for my own interactions in life - yes; I look like a dorky, gauky, loserly beta male (my autism for whatever reason causes me to look to other people like I'd be terrified of my own shadow) and the complete opposite of Johnny Trueblood fire fighter/police man/Marine/country singer. Half the time when I'm somewhere in public and an attractive woman is almost by herself around me I want to get the hell out of the situation because part of me wants to say hi and be social just for the very sake of saying, in monkey "I'm giving you the safe sign - ie. I'm not psychotic, not going to try to rape you, etc." and I know from experience that the times that I've even just broached a conversation, in the most reserved manner simply as social protocol, it can degenerate real quick into "I'm married" or "Not my type!" and it comes out from the most utterly arbitrary context that I said anything to them at all. At this point I don't care if I'm societally judged as some kind of super-loser or that I'm WAAAAYYYY below their league; I'm trying to get by, trying to make a dollar to pay bills, trying to make my life work the best I know how with or without their blessing and with or without 'getting it wet' - I just want to have a nonhostile environment in the places that I need to be whether work, my neighborhood, my transit between the two, I have a right to be wherever I am for my own reasons which have nothing to do with the women present and all I'm trying to do much of the time is secure peace on my own turf - not solicit relationships. It seems like there's a dominance game fought and won in their own mind against a straw opponent - ie. a guy looks like he's lower than her on the totem pole he a) must absolutely insatiably want her b) she's superior to him, and the synthesis c) instant ego trip.

I know that the minimalistic strip down of human beings to monkeys and the wholesale relinquishing of our credibility as human beings toward each other is a result of Darwinism taken beyond it's practical limits. I've thankfully met plenty of women who aren't reducing themselves or men to apes so I know that if we do end up in the hands of women for financial support it's not going to be a situation where we're practically all incarcerated as potential rapists, but I do fear that those who are already a bit schizophrenic on the narcissism or have a bit of antipathy to the human condition - they probably will get less and less mature. When women were more passive and men more dominant it was men who had to fight men to make sure that women's rights weren't being abused since men who had their ontology right had to come to the rescue in certain situations. I think they'll need to realize that in a similar manner, albeit probably more financially than physically, they'll need to be our protectors.

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22 Mar 2014, 10:30 am

Some women seem to be a bit bitter about the modern man.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 1725889448

Kay S. Hymowitz wrote:

Where Have The Good Men Gone?

Not so long ago, the average American man in his 20s had achieved most of the milestones of adulthood: a high-school diploma, financial independence, marriage and children. Today, most men in their 20s hang out in a novel sort of limbo, a hybrid state of semi-hormonal adolescence and responsible self-reliance. This "pre-adulthood" has much to recommend it, especially for the college-educated. But it's time to state what has become obvious to legions of frustrated young women: It doesn't bring out the best in men.

"We are sick of hooking up with guys," ... "Guys talk about 'Star Wars' like it's not a movie made for people half their age; a guy's idea of a perfect night is a hang around the PlayStation with his bandmates, or a trip to Vegas with his college friends.... They are more like the kids we babysat than the dads who drove us home."...

....pre-adulthood represents a momentous sociological development. It's no exaggeration to say that having large numbers of single young men and women living independently, while also having enough disposable income to avoid ever messing up their kitchens, is something entirely new in human experience. Yes, at other points in Western history young people have waited well into their 20s to marry, and yes, office girls and bachelor lawyers have been working and finding amusement in cities for more than a century. But their numbers and their money supply were always relatively small. Today's pre-adults are a different matter. They are a major demographic event.

What also makes pre-adulthood something new is its radical reversal of the sexual hierarchy. Among pre-adults, women are the first sex. They graduate from college in greater numbers (among Americans ages 25 to 34, 34% of women now have a bachelor's degree but just 27% of men), and they have higher GPAs. As most professors tell it, they also have more confidence and drive. These strengths carry women through their 20s, when they are more likely than men to be in grad school and making strides in the workplace. In a number of cities, they are even out-earning their brothers and boyfriends.

Still, for these women, one key question won't go away: Where have the good men gone? Their male peers often come across as aging frat boys, maladroit geeks or grubby slackers—a gender gap neatly crystallized by the director Judd Apatow in his hit 2007 movie "Knocked Up." ...

...So where did these pre-adults come from? You might assume that their appearance is a result of spoiled 24-year-olds trying to prolong the campus drinking and hook-up scene while exploiting the largesse of mom and dad. But the causes run deeper than that. Beginning in the 1980s, the economic advantage of higher education—the "college premium"—began to increase dramatically. Between 1960 and 2000, the percentage of younger adults enrolled in college or graduate school more than doubled. In the "knowledge economy," good jobs go to those with degrees. And degrees take years....

...Pre-adulthood can be compared to adolescence, an idea invented in the mid-20th century as American teenagers were herded away from the fields and the workplace and into that new institution, the high school. For a long time, the poor and recent immigrants were not part of adolescent life; they went straight to work, since their families couldn't afford the lost labor and income. But the country had grown rich enough to carve out space and time to create a more highly educated citizenry and work force. Teenagers quickly became a marketing and cultural phenomenon. They also earned their own psychological profile. One of the most influential of the psychologists of adolescence was Erik Erikson, who described the stage as a "moratorium," a limbo between childhood and adulthood characterized by role confusion, emotional turmoil and identity conflict....

...What explains this puerile shallowness? I see it as an expression of our cultural uncertainty about the social role of men. It's been an almost universal rule of civilization that girls became women simply by reaching physical maturity, but boys had to pass a test. They needed to demonstrate courage, physical prowess or mastery of the necessary skills. The goal was to prove their competence as protectors and providers. Today, however, with women moving ahead in our advanced economy, husbands and fathers are now optional, and the qualities of character men once needed to play their roles—fortitude, stoicism, courage, fidelity—are obsolete, even a little embarrassing....

...Single men have never been civilization's most responsible actors; they continue to be more troubled and less successful than men who deliberately choose to become husbands and fathers. So we can be disgusted if some of them continue to live in rooms decorated with "Star Wars" posters and crushed beer cans and to treat women like disposable estrogen toys, but we shouldn't be surprised.

Relatively affluent, free of family responsibilities, and entertained by an array of media devoted to his every pleasure, the single young man can live in pig heaven—and often does. Women put up with him for a while, but then in fear and disgust either give up on any idea of a husband and kids or just go to a sperm bank and get the DNA without the troublesome man. But these rational choices on the part of women only serve to legitimize men's attachment to the sand box. Why should they grow up? No one needs them anyway. There's nothing they have to do....

techstepgenr8tion
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22 Mar 2014, 10:49 am

Kay S. Hymowitz wrote:

Why should they grow up? No one needs them anyway. There's nothing they have to do....

That's part of why I love western esotericism. It gives me something, a framework and a goal that can be worked at progresssively, gradually, and in increment for the rest of my life without being centered on such volatile externals.

XFilesGeek
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22 Mar 2014, 10:53 am

Meh.

A society sans gender roles sounds just fine to me.

People who simply can't exist without society telling them who they are and what they should do are free to wallow, and I'm happy to let them.

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22 Mar 2014, 10:55 am

ArrantPariah wrote:

Some women seem to be a bit bitter about the modern man.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 1725889448

Kay S. Hymowitz wrote:

I like how she romanticizes an era where men beating women was pretty much okay (Like, half of The Beatles) and dudes went around grooming 14-year-olds like it was no big deal (Nugent, Elvis, Jimmy Page, and probably a billion others).

We evolved as a culture and our means of escapism changed. Oh no, how terrible. If only we could go back to the delightful happy fun-times of the 60's.

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