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Raptor
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23 Mar 2014, 5:59 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
If liberals are ever intolerant, it's because we fail to see the need to be tolerant of the intolerant.

Then you are simply not wholly tolerant. Also, keep in mind that some people's experiences and observations on certain subjects have shaped what they are intolerant of. Some will change but some will not. On some matters they are 100% justified and correct in being intolerant, depending on the subject.
I, for example, have considerably soften my position on LGBT matters in the past few years. Rest assured, it cannot in any part be attributed to the shrill hysterical liberal screechings on intolerance. If anything, the shrill hysterical liberal screechings on intolerance caused me to dig my heels for a period longer than I would have without it.
Something to ponder....

Quote:
You yourself said that as a conservative, you're not tolerant.

Sure, but I'm not of the party that screeches about tolerance and that is the difference. I am intolerant of some things and tolerant of others, like most honest people. I would not bill myself as either unless I was 100% one or the other, without exception.

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And a gun fetishist isn't every gun owner. It's someone who thinks the whole constitution revolves around the second amendment, and has the most bizarre gun fantasies.

Who cares what they think of the constitution?! They can think WTF ever they want and they can take those thoughts to the polls if they want to. Here again, it's you that is being intolerant.
Care to give examples of "gun fantasies? Probably not.....


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0_equals_true
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23 Mar 2014, 7:03 pm

Liberty is incompatible with tolerance of intolerance, however that does not equate to people's views, private practice, personal positions. It relates to tolerating the violation of other citizen's fundamental rights such as the right to campaign to change the law on whatever issue.



0_equals_true
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23 Mar 2014, 7:04 pm

It is completely fine but not advisable to be intolerant in your views.



Kraichgauer
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23 Mar 2014, 7:57 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
Liberty is incompatible with tolerance of intolerance, however that does not equate to people's views, private practice, personal positions. It relates to tolerating the violation of other citizen's fundamental rights such as the right to campaign to change the law on whatever issue.


Thank you - you described my position very well.


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Kraichgauer
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23 Mar 2014, 8:00 pm

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
If liberals are ever intolerant, it's because we fail to see the need to be tolerant of the intolerant.

Then you are simply not wholly tolerant. Also, keep in mind that some people's experiences and observations on certain subjects have shaped what they are intolerant of. Some will change but some will not. On some matters they are 100% justified and correct in being intolerant, depending on the subject.
I, for example, have considerably soften my position on LGBT matters in the past few years. Rest assured, it cannot in any part be attributed to the shrill hysterical liberal screechings on intolerance. If anything, the shrill hysterical liberal screechings on intolerance caused me to dig my heels for a period longer than I would have without it.
Something to ponder....

Quote:
You yourself said that as a conservative, you're not tolerant.

Sure, but I'm not of the party that screeches about tolerance and that is the difference. I am intolerant of some things and tolerant of others, like most honest people. I would not bill myself as either unless I was 100% one or the other, without exception.

Quote:
And a gun fetishist isn't every gun owner. It's someone who thinks the whole constitution revolves around the second amendment, and has the most bizarre gun fantasies.

Who cares what they think of the constitution?! They can think WTF ever they want and they can take those thoughts to the polls if they want to. Here again, it's you that is being intolerant.
Care to give examples of "gun fantasies? Probably not.....


Those gun fetishists who you advise me not to pay any attention to are the most vocal voices of the NRA and the GOA. It's sort of hard to ignore them when the right makes them out to be representative of gun owners, and have them appearing on TV constantly to represent their views.


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Raptor
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23 Mar 2014, 9:23 pm

/\
Seriously, you'll need to define and preferably give examples what you think a gun fetishist is before I can address that.
And I have no idea what the duck was quacking about when it comes to tolerance and whatever......


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Kraichgauer
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23 Mar 2014, 9:34 pm

Raptor wrote:
/\
Seriously, you'll need to define and preferably give examples what you think a gun fetishist is before I can address that.


I recall giving the definition before - maybe it was on another thread going on simultaneously with this one. Basically, it's someone who believes the whole of the constitution revolves around the second amendment, believes gun rights are limitless and supersedes everyone else' rights. One example that comes to mind is after the Adam Lanza shooting, and gun fetishists not only shouted down the grieving parents at town hall meetings when they suggested gun control, but even cast doubt on the very fact that anyone had even been killed. Theses cretins suggested that the grieving parents were only actors, that one of the shooting victims (a little blonde girl) was still alive, and meeting with Obama, and even that Obama had orchestrated the whole thing to justify more gun control. That, and the fact that the gun owners who qualify as gun fetishists honestly have an unhealthy sexual interest in fire arms, probably to compensate for certain short comings.
That definition satisfy you?


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Raptor
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23 Mar 2014, 10:05 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
/\
Seriously, you'll need to define and preferably give examples what you think a gun fetishist is before I can address that.


I recall giving the definition before - maybe it was on another thread going on simultaneously with this one. Basically, it's someone who believes the whole of the constitution revolves around the second amendment, believes gun rights are limitless and supersedes everyone else' rights. One example that comes to mind is after the Adam Lanza shooting, and gun fetishists not only shouted down the grieving parents at town hall meetings when they suggested gun control, but even cast doubt on the very fact that anyone had even been killed. Theses cretins suggested that the grieving parents were only actors, that one of the shooting victims (a little blonde girl) was still alive, and meeting with Obama, and even that Obama had orchestrated the whole thing to justify more gun control. That, and the fact that the gun owners who qualify as gun fetishists honestly have an unhealthy sexual interest in fire arms, probably to compensate for certain short comings.
That definition satisfy you?


That's not what I expected as a definition of a gun fetishist but whatever.
Back to this:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Those gun fetishists who you advise me not to pay any attention to are the most vocal voices of the NRA and the GOA. It's sort of hard to ignore them when the right makes them out to be representative of gun owners, and have them appearing on TV constantly to represent their views.

First off, the NRA (or GOA)do not have the luxury of deciding who is in their membership and who isn't. You sign up online and pay the dues and receive your membership package and monthly subscription to the American Rifleman. They have no way to reign in any nutjobs that might show up at the town hall meeting after Sandy Hook waving an NRA banner and acting like asshats. I did not watch that town hall meeting so I don't know what went on there. Nothing would surprise me, though.
Although I don't condone it, I think I can safely say that the anti-gun opportunists and knee-jerk politicians have over time created the climate that is conductive to that kind of tasteless reaction from some unsavory NRA members. To back that up, the citizens of Connecticut are being raked over the coals by, you guessed it, the passage of knee jerk gun legislation aimed at doing nothing but breeding more hostility and creating a new class of criminal to clutter up the legal system and piss away John Q. Taxpayer's money.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Connecticut
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Magazines holding more than 10 rounds are considered Large Capacity Magazines and are prohibited, with grandfathering for those possessed prior to April 4, 2013 provided they are registered with DESPP by January 1, 2014.[12] On April 4, 2013, Governor Malloy signed a comprehensive gun control bill that expands the scope of the assault weapon ban by reducing the number of defined features from two to one, while adding 100 specific firearms to the existing assault weapons ban list. Such weapons that were lawfully owned prior to the enactment of the law are grandfathered, but must be registered with the DESPP. Exceptions to the ban also exist for law enforcement and military members, but these weapons too must be registered.

As far as the whole constitution revolving around the 2nd amendment I don't agree but on the other hand we do see the 2nd as the teeth of the constitution for reasons you'll never grasp (and I'm not always sure I do), but none the less.......


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Kraichgauer
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23 Mar 2014, 10:21 pm

The teeth of the constitution? What, citizens are supposed to use bullets instead of ballots to change the government? I seriously don't think the founders had intended the second amendment for any such thing, as they realized their grand experiment in free government precluded any need for violent uprisings.


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23 Mar 2014, 10:48 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
The teeth of the constitution?

Did I stutter?

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What, citizens are supposed to use bullets instead of ballots to change the government? I seriously don't think the founders had intended the second amendment for any such thing, as they realized their grand experiment in free government precluded any need for violent uprisings.

Like I said, you'd never grasp the concept and I'm not even sure I completely buy into it as it applies to 2014. I think it was wise on the part of the founding fathers to have the foresight to include the right to bear arms as a an enumerated right. To me, that right is implied for all *free men by virtue of being free, just the same at the right to nourish oneself. They apparently saw then that leaving it as an implied right might not cut it in the future. They were right.

* "Free men" as in we're not going to turn this into a discussion on slavery or women's rights.


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Kraichgauer
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23 Mar 2014, 10:58 pm

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The teeth of the constitution?

Did I stutter?

Quote:
What, citizens are supposed to use bullets instead of ballots to change the government? I seriously don't think the founders had intended the second amendment for any such thing, as they realized their grand experiment in free government precluded any need for violent uprisings.

Like I said, you'd never grasp the concept and I'm not even sure I completely buy into it as it applies to 2014. I think it was wise on the part of the founding fathers to have the foresight to include the right to bear arms as a an enumerated right. To me, that right is implied for all *free men by virtue of being free, just the same at the right to nourish oneself. They apparently saw then that leaving it as an implied right might not cut it in the future. They were right.

* "Free men" as in we're not going to turn this into a discussion on slavery or women's rights.


Nourishing oneself is actually acceptable in my mind. Just as long as it's not about overthrowing the government if you don't get your way.


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23 Mar 2014, 11:55 pm

Raptor wrote:
Nothing, if you actually ARE open minded and tolerant and not just selectively so. Liberals seem to be selective about open-mindedness and tolerance yet they are the ones that preach it.
Thank you! I couldn't possibly agree more. I often feel like asking every left-dwelling person in this country one simple question: "Why don't you preach what you actually practice?" They think of themselves as paragons of virtue, yet have no qualms about personally condemning people they disagree with, often adding constant swearing to the mix for false emphasis. There's hypocrites on both sides, but it seems the left has more of them overall. I've said this before, but it bears repeating: if you already like it, its not tolerance.


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Kraichgauer
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24 Mar 2014, 1:14 am

Moviefan2k4 wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Nothing, if you actually ARE open minded and tolerant and not just selectively so. Liberals seem to be selective about open-mindedness and tolerance yet they are the ones that preach it.
Thank you! I couldn't possibly agree more. I often feel like asking every left-dwelling person in this country one simple question: "Why don't you preach what you actually practice?" They think of themselves as paragons of virtue, yet have no qualms about personally condemning people they disagree with, often adding constant swearing to the mix for false emphasis. There's hypocrites on both sides, but it seems the left has more of them overall. I've said this before, but it bears repeating: if you already like it, its not tolerance.


What are liberals being hypocritical about? If someone is intolerant to one group or another, why should liberals be tolerant toward them? If someone calls people on welfare leaches, or another person hates blacks, or thinks the gay lifestyle shouldn't be tolerated, why should liberals be tolerant of that sort of hatefulness?


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24 Mar 2014, 1:22 am

Oh no, not swearing. Hitler used swear words all the time!



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24 Mar 2014, 4:30 am

The procedure here in Texas is that if one doesn't have a driver's licence or Identification card, one can get an Election Identification Certificate (for free) if they have a birth certificate, voter's registration, and another form of ID (SS Card, school records, etc)


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Kraichgauer
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24 Mar 2014, 10:58 am

TheGoggles wrote:
Oh no, not swearing. Hitler used swear words all the time!


Swearing?


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