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God exists. I can prove it. You can prove it too

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TallyMan
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26 Apr 2014, 4:39 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Scientists have already reached the conclusion the universe is God.


You just made that up! I've never seen that stated in ANY serious science publication. There might be one or two scientists who believe that, but it is most certainly not the general opinion of scientists.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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26 Apr 2014, 4:41 pm

TallyMan wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Scientists have already reached the conclusion the universe is God.


You just made that up! I've never seen that stated in ANY serious science publication. There might be one or two scientists who believe that, but it is most certainly not the general opinion of scientists.

What I meant by that is they just think of it as the way everything was created. Like, the earth wouldn't exist if the universe hadn't happened.



thinkinginpictures
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26 Apr 2014, 4:59 pm

TallyMan wrote:
Looking again at your first paragraph you say:
Quote:
God is the Ultimate Reality. ... Ultimate Reality exists wether you want it or not. Ultimate Reality is real. Hence, God is real.


This is just a circular argument of definitions. It can be summarised as saying "ultimate reality is real". It tells us nothing.


It does. I live in a family where people use to argue that people make up their own reality. So if you don't believe in the moon, the moon doesn't exist.

It's known as cultural relativism. I just proved cultural relativism to be sh**



TallyMan
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26 Apr 2014, 5:03 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
Looking again at your first paragraph you say:
Quote:
God is the Ultimate Reality. ... Ultimate Reality exists wether you want it or not. Ultimate Reality is real. Hence, God is real.


This is just a circular argument of definitions. It can be summarised as saying "ultimate reality is real". It tells us nothing.


It does. I live in a family where people use to argue that people make up their own reality. So if you don't believe in the moon, the moon doesn't exist.


Subjective reality may not concur with objective reality. So if someone believes the moon doesn't exist that is their subjective reality. Personally I prefer objective reality - reality that can be tested and verified independently by other observers or other means. On that basis I say the moon is real.

Edit: I see you've added another line to your post after I quoted you... looks like you are now saying the opposite of what I thought you were saying. Seems we are talking but not communicating!


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thinkinginpictures
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26 Apr 2014, 5:05 pm

TallyMan wrote:
thinkinginpictures wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
Looking again at your first paragraph you say:
Quote:
God is the Ultimate Reality. ... Ultimate Reality exists wether you want it or not. Ultimate Reality is real. Hence, God is real.


This is just a circular argument of definitions. It can be summarised as saying "ultimate reality is real". It tells us nothing.


It does. I live in a family where people use to argue that people make up their own reality. So if you don't believe in the moon, the moon doesn't exist.


Subjective reality may not concur with objective reality. So if someone believes the moon doesn't exist that is their subjective reality. Personally I prefer objective reality - reality that can be tested and verified independently by other observers or other means. On that basis I say the moon is real.


I prefer objective reality too. And I even go further and say that Objective Reality is the ONLY Reality.
Everything else is false.



TallyMan
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26 Apr 2014, 5:06 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
I prefer objective reality too. And I even go further and say that Objective Reality is the ONLY Reality.
Everything else is false.


Yay! Looks like we agree on something! :)


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thinkinginpictures
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26 Apr 2014, 5:07 pm

TallyMan wrote:
thinkinginpictures wrote:
I prefer objective reality too. And I even go further and say that Objective Reality is the ONLY Reality.
Everything else is false.


Yay! Looks like we agree on something! :)


And I call that Objective Reality "God", instead of calling it "universe".
God has the advantage of consisting of only three letters, whereas "universe" has 8 letters.



TallyMan
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26 Apr 2014, 5:12 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
thinkinginpictures wrote:
I prefer objective reality too. And I even go further and say that Objective Reality is the ONLY Reality.
Everything else is false.


Yay! Looks like we agree on something! :)


And I call that Objective Reality "God", instead of calling it "universe".
God has the advantage of consisting of only three letters, whereas "universe" has 8 letters.


The huge problem with the word God is that it has too much baggage. Too many people define the word in too many different ways. I try to avoid using the word wherever possible to avoid confusion. As well as being an atheist I'm also a Zen Buddhist and have a concept of ultimate reality. Mine is more associated with the nature of consciousness itself. Very difficult (impossible really) to express in words.


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thinkinginpictures
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26 Apr 2014, 5:13 pm

TallyMan - for my own curiosity, I need to know what exactly went wrong in this discussion.

In the other thread I made, where people deliberately misinterpret me, you said that I am expressing myself poorly.

But now when you know and understand what I mean, and we can agree on it, try taking a look at my OP again, and tell me:
Is it still that unclear?



TallyMan
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26 Apr 2014, 5:17 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
TallyMan - for my own curiosity, I need to know what exactly went wrong in this discussion.

In the other thread I made, where people deliberately misinterpret me, you said that I am expressing myself poorly.

But now when you know and understand what I mean, and we can agree on it, try taking a look at my OP again, and tell me:
Is it still that unclear?


The biggest problem was using the word God. As I just mentioned the word is so heavily loaded and is used and abused in countless ways. Claiming that you have proof of God's existence was also somewhat rash too as it implies you are able to clearly express that such an entity exists in a way that is unfalsifiable. You were opening a can of worms with vague concepts with vague arguments. I understand better what you are getting at now. Doesn't necessarily mean I agree with your arguments; just that I have a better idea of what you are saying (I think).


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naturalplastic
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26 Apr 2014, 7:25 pm

The short version is like saying "there is no bird nesting in your nose". Therefore the mythical nose-infesting bird is not part of "ultimate reality". Since stuff that does not exist is not part of ultimate reality, whether you like it or not. Therefore God is not part of ultimate reality. Therefore God does not exist. Whether you like it or not."


You could use the same "logic" either way.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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26 Apr 2014, 7:30 pm

No "bird" maybe but plenty of tiny little microscopic organisms have made a comfy cozy nest in your nostril yet you wouldn't know without the microscope to tell you.
Maybe all humans need to discern God is a God microscope?



TheGoggles
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26 Apr 2014, 7:45 pm

Metaphysics: Letting daft people pretend to be wise since ???? CE.



seaturtleisland
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26 Apr 2014, 8:25 pm

Hopper wrote:
thinkinginpictures wrote:
TallyMan, are you familiar with coding software?

Because, I think that could come in handy when understanding my arguments in this post.
I use the idea behind coding software, the ideas of constants and variables and definitions, and arguments,
in building up my essay.

In software programming, any word needs to have a definition. A word is not a definition in and of itself, unless it is part of the programming language (such as AND, OR, NOT and so on).

Which means I can define a banana = god. And if I define God as something, like say God = 2+2; then a banana is God and God = 4.


thinkinginpictures is my ginger cat. I do not have a ginger cat, therefore my ginger cat does not exist, therefore thinkinginpictures does not exist.


If thinkinginpictures doesn't exist than this thread doesn't exist. Therefore this post that you are reading right now doesn't exist.



naturalplastic
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26 Apr 2014, 8:36 pm

Any existing object can be declared to be god, therefore god exists.

Thats his logic.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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26 Apr 2014, 8:55 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Any existing object can be declared to be god, therefore god exists.

Thats his logic.

Not exactly. He claims since a bird in Australia exists then it is possible God exists. If a bacteria on Io exists, God can exist. If a human on earth can exist, God can.
What if there was some species someplace thousands of light years from here and they all whisper together about people on a distant world, ours, for instance. Some are going to say, "no way they don't exist. We have been searching our solar system and we haven't found life that is anywhere close to resembling us therefor it doesn't exist." Others will say, "hey since we exist life similar to us can, also, we just haven't the means to discover said life at this moment. That doesn't mean it isn't out there. It's just unknown to us at this moment and it's possible it won't always be there because we won't. " Nothing lasts and lasts. That's an illusion.