Why are Americans so shortsighted

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Raptor
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21 May 2014, 7:37 pm

NobodyKnows wrote:

Cornflake wrote:

Crap, that's outrageous. :lol:

Have you ever fired one? I think I would probably like to have a go... :twisted:

Which machine gun fires from a magazine and the ammo cost $1 per round?

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Kraichgauer
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21 May 2014, 7:45 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

And do you seriously believe Bush is better than Obama? I'll remind you, Bush had allowed Wall Street to nearly destroy the economy, which Barry O has been working to fix.

By taking Wall Street's money and being even less hard on it that Bush was?
https://www.google.com/search?q=wall+st ... channel=sb
Perhaps you should fact check things you try and "remind" me about, it's kind of embarrassing when your "facts" don't withstand .41 seconds on Google.

I actually think they both suck about equally, albeit in different ways; it's you who goes on about how great Obama is until cornered with the facts, at which point you resort to Bush comparisons. If you have to compare your guy to one of the least popular presidents in history in order to make him look "good", maybe your guy isn't that great to begin with... Just a thought.

I never denied Obama wasn't perfect. But seriously, Bush was harder on Wall Street? Apparently not hard enough, considering what they did to the people of this country. Actually, my biggest criticism of Obama is that those Wall Street Assh*les haven't been led away in handcuffs yet. And at least Obama doesn't try to pretend he's a yokel for the lower strata of the conservative vote - yeah right, an Ivy League yokel. Or he doesn't try to pretend that he's born again to get the fundie and holy roller vote, again, as Bush had done. Maybe he wasn't so great to begin with, but at least he's made of better stuff than Bush.

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NobodyKnows
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21 May 2014, 8:17 pm

Raptor wrote:

Which machine gun fires from a magazine and the ammo cost $1 per round?

STG-58

sly279
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21 May 2014, 8:32 pm

NobodyKnows wrote:

Cornflake wrote:

Crap, that's outrageous. :lol:

Have you ever fired one? I think I would probably like to have a go... :twisted:

I fired a machine gun in the same caliber once. It only fired 650-700 rounds per minute, but they cost $1 per round. It dumped the whole magazine in about two seconds. You'd have to carry 30+ magazines weighing over 50 pounds to fire it for a full minute.

That minigun blew through at least $500 of ammunition in the video.

Rotary guns are common on aircraft: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M61_Vulcan

The Vulcan is much bigger, and it's standard on F-15s, F-16s and a number of other planes.

There's also the Navy's Phalanx anti-missile system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS

Don't forget the GAU-8/A Avenger that the A10 is built around

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-8_Avenger

Raptor
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21 May 2014, 8:34 pm

NobodyKnows wrote:

Raptor wrote:

NobodyKnows wrote:

Cornflake wrote:

Crap, that's outrageous. :lol:

Have you ever fired one? I think I would probably like to have a go... :twisted:

Which machine gun fires from a magazine and the ammo cost $1 per round?

STG-58

The StG-58 is a rifle. An assault rifle by Austrian standards, hence the StG designator (StG being the acronym for sturmgewehr. Translated: storm rifle), but a battle rifle by most others. Unless we're talking about high end hunting or match ammo, 7.62 NATO is considerably less than $1 per round.
Sorry, but the gun nut in me absolutely compels me to be a stickler for details.

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Dox47
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21 May 2014, 9:10 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

But seriously, Bush was harder on Wall Street?

I provided you with a clear link; apparently you think the facts have a conservative bias.

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Kraichgauer
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21 May 2014, 10:48 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

But seriously, Bush was harder on Wall Street?

I provided you with a clear link; apparently you think the facts have a conservative bias.

That link only gives me a page from Google with several selections to choose from. I presumed the link was not working the way you had intended, unless you actually thought I should read every entry.

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Dox47
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22 May 2014, 12:13 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

That link only gives me a page from Google with several selections to choose from. I presumed the link was not working the way you had intended, unless you actually thought I should read every entry.

I was giving you a selection of results, since I know how you like to impeach sources rather than engage with truths that clash with your worldview, seeing as how they cause painful cognitive dissonance and all. Just compare the raw numbers:

Financial Fraud Conviction Scorecard:

Bush: 1300+, Clinton: 1000+, Obama: 0.0 (+/-)

Yeah, that Obama sure showed Wall Street, didn't he?

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Kraichgauer
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22 May 2014, 12:45 am

Dox47 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

That link only gives me a page from Google with several selections to choose from. I presumed the link was not working the way you had intended, unless you actually thought I should read every entry.

Okay, I'll give you that. But those Bush administration convictions certainly didn't include the bastards who nearly destroyed the country, and left thousands with their homes stolen out from under them.
And by the way, if you look, I did in fact concede Obama is hardly living up to my expectations by not prosecuting said bastards.

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Dox47
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22 May 2014, 1:21 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

You need a new argument, resorting to moral equivalence isn't very convincing, and you go to that particular well fairly predictably. Do you not see how slippery you are when it comes to virtually any criticism of Obama and the Democrats? I have to painstakingly pin you down multiple times before I can pry a grudging acknowledgment of their faults out of you, even when the facts are easily available and quickly checked, and you'll quickly forget this whole conversation next time the subject comes up. Can you name a single time you've objected to one of my criticisms of Obama that I haven't beaten you down with citations and documentations of his many faults that you're somehow blind to? Persecuting whistleblowers? Marijuana crackdowns? Drone assassinations? You know I'm no Republican, and I don't think you'd be dumb enough to try and hang the racist label on me, so when I list my problems with the president, you need to actually rebut with facts, instead of relying on the checklist, which you're going to be seeing lots of references to from me in the future. You should bookmark it, check it out before posting in the future, it might save you some time.

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Kraichgauer
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22 May 2014, 1:32 am

Dox47 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Being big enough to concede I'm mistaken about something doesn't mean you've pinned me down with anything. And as I recall, I have never conceded an inch of ground concerning gun control (a subject in which you've proven yourself to be rather irrational on), or healthcare. And no, I'm not about to call you a racist - I don't know why you would even bring that up.

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Dox47
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22 May 2014, 2:14 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Being big enough to concede I'm mistaken about something doesn't mean you've pinned me down with anything.

You only "concede" when the facts are so clearly against you that continuing to argue would be cutting your own throat; you bob and weave right up until that point, throwing up smoke and mirrors such as irrelevant comparisons and emotional appeals until your back is against the wall and you have to make a grudging admission.

Kraichgauer wrote:

And as I recall, I have never conceded an inch of ground concerning gun control (a subject in which you've proven yourself to be rather irrational on)

I'm uncompromising, which is not the same thing as irrational, as I simply will not compromise with wrong on this issue. My views are based on facts, not fears, and I can explain every single one of them and back them up with citations and argumentation, something that I've yet to see you do with regards to guns, or most other things you hold forth on. Really, this is a rather rich accusation coming from you, in light of my expertise in the subject and your own ignorance.

Kraichgauer wrote:

, or healthcare.

I wasn't talking about healthcare, and it's not normally one of the things I criticize Obama over, preferring to stick to the civil liberties issues. Don't change the subject.

Kraichgauer wrote:

And no, I'm not about to call you a racist - I don't know why you would even bring that up.

Because you like to not so subtly hint that most if not all opposition to Obama is racist in nature, and I'm probably among the very few people here with positively unimpeachable racially tolerant credentials, which rules out that line of attack.

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sly279
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22 May 2014, 2:18 am

probably because there is a decent amount of strong Obama supporters who will call anyone who says anything remotely bad about him a racist. I've certainly ran into a fair share of them. I remember hearing "you didn't vote for him cause you're a racist" during the 2008 election. I mean really my choice was vote for someone who is for everything I'm against or vote against him and apparently be a racist lol. Then since he's been elected at least 3 people will say me an others are racist whenever we bring up complaints about him. I find it disturbing. They can't defend the problems so you must be a racist for bring them up.

like the silliness of the who birth certificate thing. Now I believe it doesn't matter, but just cause people brought it up as a concern and wanted to make sure he's a citizen doesn't mean they are racist, I mean if a white president was to have the same question towards them would the same people say its racist or would they then call it legit? I dislike racism , but I also dislike its false accusations and the ideal that only white people can be racist. Or as one person put it only white, Hispanic, Asian people can be racist. That's a whole another thing though. I don't know if you tend to go to (person not supporting obama)= racist. But there's a lot of super obama supporters who do which is where I believe he was coming from with that.

TBH I don't support obama on lot of things but we stuck with him for two more years or so, I just hope he doesn't mess up the nation too bad before he's out and I wonder if the next person will spend his first term saying " it's not my fault it was obama" like how obama blames everything on bush either that or its something he didn't know about that happen directly under him lol

on the not of guns it seems obama might have created a loop hole for the manufacture of new automatic firearms, which would be a ironic twist given his stated goal was to make access to them harder.

gamefreak
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22 May 2014, 2:22 am

Why do people always pull race card when someone criticizes Obama. People have been criticizing politicians for the longest time. Regardless of skin color.

Kraichgauer
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22 May 2014, 2:22 am

Dox47 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Being big enough to concede I'm mistaken about something doesn't mean you've pinned me down with anything.

Kraichgauer wrote:

And as I recall, I have never conceded an inch of ground concerning gun control (a subject in which you've proven yourself to be rather irrational on)

Kraichgauer wrote:

, or healthcare.

I wasn't talking about healthcare, and it's not normally one of the things I criticize Obama over, preferring to stick to the civil liberties issues. Don't change the subject.

Kraichgauer wrote:

And no, I'm not about to call you a racist - I don't know why you would even bring that up.

Of course I bob and weave in an argument. That's what anyone does.
I'm not going to get into an endless argument again with you regarding gun cotrol, save to say that you are uncompromising in oposition to common sense, which is the definition of irrationality.
And no, I DO NOT claim anyone who opposes Obama is motivated by racism, but when it's clear that race is an issue regarding dislike of this President, I will call it out.

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Kraichgauer
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22 May 2014, 2:32 am

sly279 wrote:

Voting against Obama doesn't make one a racist, but the simple fact is, the birthers are clearly motovated by racism. There is no legitimate question regarding the President's birth place, but those who are raising this stink want to make him out to be the "other," even - perhaps especially - if that means contriving race based conspiracy theories.

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