What do you think about universal healthcare?

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I think there needs to be some type of universal healthcare, but I don't think Obamacare is the way to go about it. The way I would do it is this. First, let me explain that in Alabama we have Medicaid which is a state funded healthcare for low income people. Children whose parents fall under a certain level can get it up until they are 19. That's the cutoff for it. Adults can get it but they have to have no income other than either disability or welfare. If an adult is unemployed and there is no income coming in, then you can go down there and sign up for it. However, if you end up getting any income that month then whatever you used during the month has to be repaid. An example is this, lets say my husband lost his job on August 1st. We go down there, sign up for Medicaid and are approved. On August 5th I break my leg really bad and have to go in the hospital, have surgery, etc. I come home on meds and things which Medicaid pays to have filled. Now, meanwhile my husband is looking for a job. Lets say he gets hired and starts work on August 31st. We have to pay Medicaid back for the bills they paid for us earlier that month, when we had no income. That's one reason Medicaid for adults sucks. That clause keeps people from looking for work if they have had to use it that month. Also, there is no dental or optical for adults. It's pretty good for kids though, even though the income level is pretty low.

Because there were so many kids who didn't qualify for Medicaid and whose parents had no insurance and couldn't afford it, so they started the AllKids program. It's administered through Blue Cross, but goes through the state to get on it. The income level is much higher and unless you make great money, your kids can get on AllKids. It goes on a sliding scale. You may or may not pay an enrollment fee based on your income, and may or may not have a copay which is based on your income. They do a review every year of your income to see how much you should be paying, and you have to report changes over a certain level so they can change how much you pay. This is not available for adults. This is how Obamacare should be.

Thats actually what I thought Obamacare was going to be, until all the info about it finally came out. We cannot afford any kind of enrollment fee right now, and I can't sign up for anything at Obamacare. So, even though our country has "universal health care", I'm still left out in the cold, as is my husband. I have major depression which can't be treated, a big ole hole in my tooth where a filling came out so I cant chew on that side and on the other side a filling about to come out so I have to chew carefully on that side, and a cap on the front that is starting to get loose and will eventually come off. I also can't see to read without my dollar store glasses and can barely see anything that isn't between two and ten feet from me and can't get glasses. My husband has untreated high blood pressure and untreated high cholesterol. The emergency room would see us, but now they won't give prescriptions for things like that, you have to see your doctor (even if you don't have one). There is also no emergency dental care and even if I got hit in the mouth with a rock and knocked some teeth out, I'd be s**t out of luck because no dentists will see you without cash or insurance. Even if the ER did give prescriptions for those things, we couldn't afford to get them filled. Our doctor has a sliding scale based on our income, and it would cost 25 to see him, but the lab doesn't have one and he has to do lab work before he prescribes anything so again, I'm s**t out of luck because you have to pay the lab fee when you go to the dr if you don't have insurance. I could go pay 25 bucks and talk to him but that's all.

So, we need something, but we need something done the right way. Obama didn't take into consideration people like us, who don't qualify for Medicaid but have virtually no money to spend on anything other than our bills and sometimes those don't get paid. For a Democrat, Obama is way out of touch with all the poor Americans he keeps talking about like he has a clue.

Oh I beg to differ. Would you happen to have a legitimate example of a well run system like that around here? Would you care to explain why it is that if the VA is such crap you think government run universal HC would be any better? Its the same people who ran the Post Office into the ground, its the same people who deregulated the banks, its the same people who helped create the housing bubble, its the same people who put Monsanto in charge of the FDA and now the EPA, its the same people who have run up an unplayable national debt, its the same people who declared "war on drugs" then promptly lost that war with no hope of victory only to throw billions of $ at a lost cause, its the same people who spy on you illegally, its the same people who voted to invade Iraq, its the same people who went to war in Afghanistan over opium. And yes, its the same damn people who set up the VA to insensitive hospitals to not see patients and to not diagnose illnesses. its the same people who DO NOT actually give a crap about you, its the same people who pretend to care. They care, but only about money.

How exactly is it going to be any different? The main argument I tend to hear from its supporters is usually magic. I do not believe in your magic sir and I can see through their slight of hand(lies).

People are always making these absolutely lunatic comparisons with the U.S. to other countries around the world. Here is some news, the U.S. is not Denmark, it doesnt work like that. Not unless you believe in magic.

We've had universal health care in Canada for quite some time and I wouldn't have it any other way, though our system isn't without it's problems (what system doesn't have problems, really). I live on the Canada/U.S. border as well (along with 80+% of the population), so when someone really wants to, or there's something they can't get done here for whatever reason, they can easily go to the U.S. to have it done. Sometimes we are covered to go to the U.S. to get something done as well, if it's not something that can be done here.

American healthcare: Give me the full treatment, and send the bill to the government.

Why care about over-charging, or receiving unnecessary procedures ? It's all free !

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYTjiIm4h_Q[/youtube]

All I want is Welbutrin and Lexapro for me, and Tenormin and some cholesterol meds for my husband. That's far from the full treatment, and not very expensive at all, but we can't pay for it because we do not have the money.

There certainly are people out there who want the government to pay for surgery that isn't for a life threatening problem. You wouldn't have to look very far to find one either. I know that without money or insurance I have to take what I can get, which is usually nothing and I'm grateful when i can get it and thankful when I'm able to pay for it.

Talk about a fallacious argument.

The US government should be paying for infrastructure like universal healthcare in lieu of bankers bailouts, not in addition to.

If supposedly poorer countries can afford to maintain subsidised health services then what is the excuse for the USA, with all its supposed economic strength?

I am replying to this post, but it is a response to all of the posts harsh on the VA health system.

1. The quality of VA healthcare is far above private sector average. They boast far more Centers of Excellence than most private health care providers.

2. Wait times are capped at 14 days, far shorter than the private sector average. These limitations were put into place without any increase in funding or resources to make it remotely achievable while at the same time handing out penalties for not doing the impossible. Of course you are going to get falsification of data.

3. It is the approval process that is the biggest problem, which can be directly related to the fact that congress can't pass any bills that would increase funding, expand services, improve programs, or invest in updating their outdates software/hardware/operating systems.

4. Suicide is a problem among veterans. Thanks in large part to the Repubs blocking and/or voting down 3 bills in the last 4 years that would have expanded mental health services.

5. Reason for a shortage of doctors and nurses (among others): Professional level jobs pay much more in the private sector, and as federal workers continue to lose more benefits and endure wage freezes this will only get worse.

6. At the VA, after getting through the approval process, it took 4 days to get an appointment with my PCP. After that appointment it took:
4 days to see a dermatologist, 4 days to see a nutritionist and a dietician, and 3 hours to see a neurologist.
Go ahead and compare that to a private hospital for someone who isn't paying cash for top of the line, first class treatment.

If you want VA healthcare to be better, then you would have to be willing to let the government spend the money to make it happen.

Just to make this perfectly clear:
This law is not a health care law. It does not provide anyone with health care.

It is a consumer protection law that regulates health insurance. That's all.

This is almost the exact same plan floated by the Republicans back when Bill Clinton was in office and universal healthcare was beeing discussed. It was lauded as the ultimate solution to all the problems with a capitalism based healthcare system. The Democrats at the time threw temper tantrums and called it corporate handouts.
Now the Republicans call it socialism and the Democrats call it a step up for the working man.
Flippety-Flop.
And healthcare is far from the only issue this has happened on.
The funny thing is that since Reagan, there has been almost no difference in the actual actions of the presidents, regardless of aprty.

And people wonder how a former conservative leaning moderate such as myself can become a liberal leaning one in such a short time.

On the V.A issue the main reason I give it a thumbs down is the waiting period for new veterans. Not to mention the hassle (for even badly disabled people) to get pensions they deserve. Dispersing travel pay to patients as well as timely payments to hospitals and doctors outside the V.A network is also a big issue.

Other than that once your in the care it is actually pretty good. Especially in terms of major hip surgeries and what not.

^Agreed 100%

If we were willing to lay down the cash and resources up front to modernize and streamline the infrastructure, it would save time and money in the long run. It sucks for new vets trying to get in. Even vets who have no medical conditions to document and get approved have to wait forever to get their names on the list, even though it should be as simple as providing a copy of their DD214 and a single form of ID.

This is the real problem with America. Its people are delusional. They posses the power to completely alter their own minds to the point where they cant see reality any more, but instead some fake reality that is more pleasant for them.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/19/health/ve ... index.html
Hospital delays are killing America's war veterans

"We appropriated a million dollars (to Dorn) because VA asked for it," said Rep. Jeff Miller, R-Florida, chairman of the House Committee on Veterans' Affairs.""

"In fact, time and time again, even at hospitals where veterans died waiting for care, administrators got bonuses, not demotions, according to congressional investigators."

But no, its all just the republicans fault, it has nothing to do with the fact the system is broken and being taken advantage of by admins huh? The problem is a lack of money, its all jsut the republicans fault and all the while admins are getting bonuses. Makes perfect since bro dude.

People are so good at coming up with make believe excuses to make the world a less scary place. Its amazing. The system is crippled by fraud and and broken methods, you just cant accept it.

The point of the video is to show that in American culture ...

"The government" is seen as a group of opportunists trying to figure out how to siphon off money for themselves.

"The government" is seen as enriching the capitalists, rich, and special interests.

This why Americans will say they hate socialism, because they believe socialism would enable the opportunists to rob the country openly.



The main dysfunction of health care in America is that people don't care what it costs because an insurance company or a government entity is paying for it. This is why government managed health care will fail in the long run.

Like the guy in the video says, "Who cares ? It's all free!".



It is only because you are shutout of the "free money" that you say the minimum treatment would suffice.

If you had government insurance, then you would seek out a reputable medical facility, a nice building, "expert doctor", low waiting times, likely you would do whatever array of treatments the doctor suggests. And why not ? It's all free !

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/ ... 6O20140227

Also, remember that the two biggest drivers for demand in the VA are the spectacularly stupid wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Take all the veterans who got screwed up over there, add a corrupt for-profit medical system as the alternative to the VA, and you're going to massive demand for a limited supply of healthcare.

Well, quite. There isn't going to be an unlimited pile of money, and tough decisions need to be made about which treatments provide the best value for money. Patients shouldn't be the ones having to care about how much something costs though - medical authorities should.

Again, the system works fine in almost every other industrialised country. Are the public officials of the United States particularly corrupt or stupid?

In fact, the USA public does not perceive their politicians as being much more corrupt than Britain or Germany, and they're actually perceived as less corrupt than French or Austrian politicians. Furthermore, given that American universities are the best in the world, it seems unlikely they are less intelligent.

If "tough decisions" were made then it would provide political ammunition to the other side. So, "tough decisions" never get made, and the USA marches forward towards bankruptcy.

President Obama called our government run health care a "ticking time bomb". The trustees who manage it report that it will be insolvent in 2026 assuming cuts in doctor reimbursements take place. However, those cuts will probably not take place, so it will be insolvent sooner.

Raising taxes won't help. New taxes would just go to the existing deficit, or plug all the other government programs that are insolvent on paper now like the 'US Post Office', or will be insolvent soon like 'The Social Security program'. Worse of all, as interest rates rise, the USA has to come up with hundreds of billions of dollars to pay the interest on the national debt.

The USA will go into the textbooks as an example of why a government should never be trusted to run anything.



We put a lot of money into "defense", and "prisons", perhaps, these other countries direct that money to health care.

Last edited by LoveNotHate on 23 May 2014, 5:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

QFE