When did you grow weary of liberals?

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LoveNotHate
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05 Jul 2014, 4:58 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

I actually don't want to see anyone's rights trampled, either, but the sad fact of the matter is, never have the "have not" won out against the "haves" (despite what tea baggers might tell you). All I'm talking about is a hand up offered to the needy, even though conservatives claim they're losing so much to have some tax money diverted to help them

The middle class "tea baggers" are being squeezed. I can fully understand why they would want the burden of taxation off their backs.

What is your end game ? Everyone is living in poverty ?

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Kraichgauer
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05 Jul 2014, 6:28 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

The middle class "tea baggers" are being squeezed. I can fully understand why they would want the burden of taxation off their backs.

What is your end game ? Everyone is living in poverty ?

Nobody in the middle class is going to be squeezed into poverty by the American tax system. Let the tea baggers live in Europe to see how high taxes are, then maybe they'd quit complaining. On top of that, not only would they see that they are not really all that over taxed, but as many European countries get more from their taxes than we Americans do, said tea baggers might even endorse such godless socialism!

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Kraichgauer
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05 Jul 2014, 6:30 pm

sly279 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

sly279-

I actually don't want to see anyone's rights trampled, either, but the sad fact of the matter is, never have the "have not" won out against the "haves" (despite what tea baggers might tell you). All I'm talking about is a hand up offered to the needy, even though conservatives claim they're losing so much to have some tax money diverted to help them.
As for the abortion issue - actually, you and I probably agree more than disagree on that issue. In my heart, I'm pro-life, though in my head I'm pro-choice.

I am on welfare, so I indeed understand the need for giving a hand up. the whole they stealing my money and giving it to others who don't work is a major issue I have with conservitives, though people with that mindset are tea party which I do not like. at least some people in the tea party want me lined up and shot, others just want me cut off and die somewhere they can't see or know about it.

There have been people with that mindset who lose their job and have to go on welfare, they then realize how important it is.
course there are some who are on welfare, work and also get food stamps who are anti welfare. I don't get them.
my friend's dad is a trucker and constantly post tea party stuff about how people like steal money from them. my friend is like well you're different. o.O. his other son is on welfare and in the marine.

what I don't get is if they see me and they are like you're different you really need it. why can't they process that there are millions of people like me who also really need it.
though maybe they really think I am just a thief and just don't want to say it to my face.

I am probably a independent. but that's no fun.
the left drives me towards feeling like a conservative due to guns, and immigration, the right drives me to feeling like a horrible person cause I think we need welfare, better education and healthcare(though I don't think the ACA was the right move)

With the exception of the ACA, I think you and I are in pretty close agreement.

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wittgenstein
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05 Jul 2014, 7:24 pm

Caring about others? yep that is tiresome! I prefer supply side Jesus!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK7gI5lMB7M
Other people? Forget about it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf0ZyoUn7Vk

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seaturtleisland
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05 Jul 2014, 7:32 pm

raisedbyignorance wrote:

I was for a short time after college more conservative as a means of pointing the middle finger at my self-righteous liberal friends from college who spent most of the time treating me like crap and being overtly and hypocritically racist towards me.

I got past that and adopted some liberal views. However, my biggest weariness with liberals isn't the bullying as it would be for most people. Bullying can be applied to any political ideology IMO. My weariness with liberals comes from a lack of rationality while claiming to be the rational side. They get too emotional about something instead of stopping to think "is this the best course of action" and some of their ideas and plans can be pretty unrealistic at times.

So far the most ridiculous thing by liberals I've come across was the New York City mayor's plan to get rid of horse drawn carriages (a major symbolic tourist activity in NYC) in favor of vintage vehicles. Not only does the idea eliminate charm, it replaces it with tackiness.

I thought it was the conservatives who claimed to be the rational side. Liberals are the ones who claim to have a heart while other people are heartless. Conservatives claim to be realistic. At least that's how I've heard it. A conservative at 20 has no heart. A liberal at 50 has no brain.

wittgenstein
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05 Jul 2014, 7:54 pm

Hmmmmmmmmmmm,
All college professors are liberals and all journalists are liberals. OK , there is a conspiracy going on. Every scientific organization in the world affirms AGW. HMMMMMMM, Damn those Masons and Illuminati!
So, according to this nonsense, those that are educated and those that make a living following current affairs are part of the conspiracy. I prefer, the obvious, conservatives are not conservative ( I like Eisenhower)
Anyway, I care about people and "conservatives" do not.
HMMMMMMMMMMMM
So those adjunct profs have more economic power than the entire oil industry? :lol:
Perhaps, those that rose to an insignificant status are not your enemy. Perhaps, those that inherited all their advantages are.

NobodyKnows
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05 Jul 2014, 9:56 pm

wittgenstein wrote:

Academic consensus has an ugly track record. Eugenics was popular in academia in the early 1920s. There's a street in Minneapolis named after the founder of the Minnesota Eugenics Society, Charles Fremont Dight: http://libguides.mnhs.org/eugenics

Continental drift was mocked for a long time. The discoverer of the alternative compliment system (part of the immune system) was treated so badly that he committed suicide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Pillemer The European intelligentsia used measurements of Africans' cranial diameters to argue that they were congenitally stupid, even though they had no evidence of causation.

The fact that a group of people make a pretense of being smart doesn't mean that they are. The fact that they have persuasive arguments doesn't make those arguments right.

Kraichgauer
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05 Jul 2014, 10:00 pm

NobodyKnows wrote:

wittgenstein wrote:

But academia has changed for the better since those days.

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ruveyn
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05 Jul 2014, 10:20 pm

Back in 1964. The demonization of Barry Goldwater by the Liberal defamation squad finally showed me how vicious and untruthful the pinko stinko commie loving America hating progressive liberals are.

Disagreeing with Goldwater's policies is one think, but destructive and mendacious ad homina are another.

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Kraichgauer
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05 Jul 2014, 10:32 pm

ruveyn wrote:

But are not Republicans guilty of the same concerning Clinton and Obama?

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Sweetleaf
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06 Jul 2014, 3:44 pm

Raptor wrote:

seaturtleisland and Sweetleaf:
That was a gen-er-al-is-at-ion. I'm not going to write an essay on it since my in my long and illustrious posting history I've given my opinions on welfare several times before and they are not quite as austere as you seem to wish they were.
G'day....

seems more like an inability to answer a simple question u think welfare to help the 'have nots' is a waste of money based on opinions u have given is it that hard to say what u think a better solution is? Beginning to think its physically impossible for a lot of conservatives to think of anything.

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wowiexist
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06 Jul 2014, 3:56 pm

What qualifies a person as a liberal? Do they have to take the liberal side of every issue? What if I am pro-life but also pro-gay marriage?

Kraichgauer
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06 Jul 2014, 4:04 pm

wowiexist wrote:

What qualifies a person as a liberal? Do they have to take the liberal side of every issue? What if I am pro-life but also pro-gay marriage?

I think a great many people - if not most - fall into that midway category. So much for the polarization of the left and right - except in the case of Raptor and me. :lol:

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The_Walrus
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06 Jul 2014, 4:09 pm

NobodyKnows wrote:

wittgenstein wrote:

Academic consensus has an ugly track record.

And yet a better one than... everything else.

The reason you know "scientific racism" is rubbish? Academic consensus! The reason you know about continental drift? Academic consensus! Eugenics, of course, is a moral issue rather than a factual one, so the support of "academics" is moot. Academics (which in the case of eugenics mostly related to creative types and politicians) are no less likely than other people to be a***holes.

100 years ago, you'd really have been dependent on smarter people (a small number of scientists) to help you, but now you can view a lot of scientific papers relatively easily, read popular science books, read scientific blogs, and read Wikipedia. You can easily email experts to talk about their subject, or meet someone who has studied it.

Raptor
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06 Jul 2014, 4:40 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

Beginning to think its physically impossible for a lot of conservatives to think of anything.

Yeah, but we make up for our stupidity by being extra mean. :twisted:

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NobodyKnows
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06 Jul 2014, 9:40 pm

The_Walrus wrote:

The reason you know "scientific racism" is rubbish? Academic consensus!

Yes, consensus is the reason, but not in a good way. We decided as a society that it's wrong to suggest a racial difference, but only after a lot of uneducated black people got themselves arrested and beaten and it looked really bad. So not only did the academic world not drive this change, but the consensus was reached politically rather than scientifically. We actually don't know that it was rubbish (at least not from the data). On the contrary, we just switched from a racist rationalization to an anti-racist rationalization. For all I know, black people might be smarter than white people.

Quote:

Eugenics, of course, is a moral issue rather than a factual one, so the support of "academics" is moot.

The "scientific racism" issue was also settled with moral arguments rather than factual ones.

Last edited by NobodyKnows on 07 Jul 2014, 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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