Why Not Such Huge Veneration Of Art?

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You are just thinking of the type of artist who looks at a rose then draws a picture of it and feels very smug and satisfied showing it to everyone and they go oooh you draw so well!

That's good and fine, nothing wrong with that, but that's not the only type of art. Some people are so dedicated to their art, they don't necessarily draw a rose. They might draw one with teeth or mittens or spider legs.

It might have eyelashes or halfway morph into lips. It could even be a rose with fur. In art, a rose is not just a rose.

An artist can transform the rose while keeping the original form. It could even be an entirely different plant or perhaps a creature on another planet...something only the artist is keen to.

Or perhaps the scientist just has more exact language and what not to describe all of what they see...what is to say the scientist actually sees more? perhaps the artist sees more and us humans simply have not developed the capacity to put it into words or scientific measurement.

Or the rose might symbolize something.

Scientists can also transform what they see into something else, they may apply a concept from something that they see and make something new based on that concept, these are not things that only artists do.

There's an artistry to doing that sort of thing. Cooking, for instance, could be thought of as scientific yet there is plenty of room for creation within that paradigm.

Science and art are both creative pursuits.
The methods that people come up with to study things that people can't directly perceive and ideas that people come up with to understand natural phenomena are highly creative, as are ways people invent to make new functional things.

Yes, even Einstein indicated that the art of his imagination is what led to his greatest insights and discoveries in science, and he was excellent writer of philosophical prose too.

The hybrid of scientist and artist is what CAN make genius.

IN my opinion, it does not come from either pathway alone.

And IF I for one, at age 54, can do ballet and martial arts recognized as expert level by expert opinion with never a lesson yet, at 16 months of practicing it now, CONSIDERING before when I was sick and before that I had to watch my wife walk to copy her to be comfortable enough to walk in public stores, as opposed to the 2858 miles I have logged with my GPS sports watch in 16 months of mixed ballet and martial arts dance walk, let's just say almost anything is possible in just one life of human being, CREATIVELY AS SUCH, ALWAYS BROADENING ONE'S SKILLS AS MUCH TIME AS ONE HAS FOR THAT, AND YEAH, if I wasn't retired it might not have ever happened as FREEDOM IS JUST THAT, FREEDOM when possible! :)

I don't think that it is at possible for someone without serious ballet training to be recognized as being at expert level by an expert in ballet.

Admittedly, men athletes with good flexibility can sometimes pick up on ballet relatively quickly, but someone has to teach them the proper form - you can't pick that up on your own. That takes ballet classes with a knowledgeable teacher to make corrections.

For the right people, I would believe it might be possible with three or more classes per week over the course of at least three years. Even then, five full classes a week would likely be necessary for far longer to be considered expert.

AS I have documented by way of Nike GPS Sports Watch 2858 miles, just in public stores, not counting the hours averaging 9 a week at a gym sparring with metal instead of flesh and blood as legs that PRESS 830 LBS can kill with ease; and 8 hours a week sparring with nature barely touching leaves of trees with THE BALLS OF MY FEET IN MY back yard; and 3 hours a week rave dancing in a public dance hall in ballet and martial arts style, THIS is NOT what the so-called 'normal' practice of BALLET OR KUNG FU DOES, perhaps except for monks, in other ways, who do not have to provide for their own subsistence as I DO NOT as a financially independent person.

TO BE clear and more specific an Expert in Kung FU and other martial arts who trains elite forces of the military has referred to my specific techniques that I have learned completely naturally by instinct and intuition as defined techniques in the SO-CALLED SCIENCE OF THE Martial Art that is KUNG FU and named me a deadly expert in potential as same.

I OWN MY OWN ART OF MARTIAL ARTS AND BALLET AND NO one BUT ME IS MY STYLE.

And to be clear no one has identified me as a ballet expert just a ballet artist.

And at 6FT tall and 232LBS of 'Arnold like' figure, there is no WAY I COULD MEET THE AESTHETIC REQUIREMENT OF BALLET alone, as I clearly understand from studying the 'science' of it.

I'm a graceful bull in a china cabinet out in the wild of humans for metaphor in ballet, if you will. ;)

But never the less the same patterns of the golden spiral mean of 1.618 that CAN be observed at the largest science identified material structures from outer space and the smallest particle materials of Quantum physics live in me instinctually and innately above so below.

And the form of my body now that my body moves in instinctual essence like this is reflected as similar in male nude legal Internet FLESH AND BLOOD renaissance art.

My style and PHILOSOPHY of ballet and martial arts is BE THE WATER PER BRUCE LEE TALK AND IN doing so I reflect that in FORM OF EXPRESSED CHI, KI, QI, KUNDALINI SERPENT OR whatever metaphor explains cutting through concrete blocks with hands, walking on coals of fire, steaming heat off of icy robes as science shows Tibetan Monks can do with relative free will along WITH CONTROLLING BRAIN WAVES AND OTHER AMAZING FEATS OF HUMAN POTENTIAL.

SO YEAH, I am more a mix of Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris at 6FT and 232LBS of leg pressing 830LBS, kicking 'ASS' FEET, at age 54.

And hell yes, most EVERYONE I MEET WHEN I dance free leading a group of 200 or so dancers at one of the top 100 clubs for dance in the U.S. demand I show them my I.D. when I tell them I am 54 and the they tell me I cannot possibly be older than 35 after they see my feats of foot, hand, torso and hips gliding and blasting my way across the dance hall floor.

I have also been NAMED BY others as DANCE LEGEND IN MY METRO AREA, and other metaphors like Awesome; Most Valuable Player of Dance; ZEN MASTER; FAMOUS ON FACEBOOK as LITERALLY HUNDREDS OF FOLKS HAVE VIDEO TAPED me in public VIEW TO SHARE with thousands of others too, to bring looks of WTF IN ONLINE views, JUST TO NAME A FEW METAPHORS APPLIED TO ME with the many people in the herd of my metro area I have connected to in the last 16 months of BELIEVE IT OR NOT, IT'S TRUTH AND REALITY AND NO TV SHOW, friend.

I am a real life miracle in the flesh as called that as well, by professionals who treated me for 19 medical disorders that were termed as impossible to recover from by doctor as well, as I touched on in another thread with you. :)

But to BE CRYSTAL CLEAR here I FOR ONE AM NOT SAYING ANY OF THESE THINGS ABOUT ME ALONE.

I AM NO ONE BUT GOD'S CHILD AND nothing special and I BELIEVE THAT MOST ANYONE WHO HAS AS MUCH ALL NATURAL will, faith, belief, HOPE, TIME, AND FEARLESS FREEDOM CAN DO WHAT I DO TOO, WITH THE CONTINUING KUNG FU like PHILOSOPHY OF practice, practice, practice, ALL DAY, EVERY NOW, IN AN ART AND not science only PERFECTION OF PRACTICE with never perfection as GOAL.

PEOPLE VIEW ME AS THEY LIKE AND DESCRIBE IT AS SUCH in what I document above as reported by them AND THAT IS ALL I SAY HERE per all these silly human labels that will NEVER EVER DESCRIBE THE FULL ESSENCE OF what either I or the rest of Mother Nature TRUE AKA GOD IS TOO!

Or anyone else for that matter who can 'see' more than 'skin deep' of FULLER HUMAN POTENTIAL REALITY.

MIRACLES ARE REAL, AND I prove that everyday to folks in real life in inspiration way.

To do it in online is more of a challenge but I try, as why wouldn't someone NOT WANT to live an amazing life of miracle if they COULD.

That is the true definition of insanity, at least to me.

AS they could POTENTIALLY DO THIS TOO, if they really believed they could and exercised that option OF HUMAN FULLER POTENTIAL, ALL GOD GIVEN, AND NATURALLY FREE WITH WORK! IN JUST DOING more walk than talk. :)

I'm serious about all this and I live in a state of virtual bliss all the time, after having the worst case too of severe anxiety and depression that my attending Air Force Psychiatrist stated he had ever seen in his career of treating clients that included the most severe of combat fatigue and PTSD patients.

It was ASSESSED AS so bad he was considering having a mechanical implant put into my chest to stimulate my vagal nerve that I now understand is the true physiological source of the metaphor of Kundalini Serpent as that source of driving POWERFUL HUMAN EMOTIONS FOR ACTION CAN EITHER DIE, LAY DORMANT, OR COME BACK TO LIFE, like a Phoenix RISING FROM THE ASHES OF THE FIRE OF DEATH IN LIFE.

AND TO be clear here, I recognize that much of this may sound like emotional gibberish and hyperbole to you, but until you have been where I've been, I can only suggest don't be too sure OF that if that is your perception that is truth.

And furthermore, the Autism Spectrum is huge in its expanse AND DIVERSITY with some folks who are extremely empathic with emotional powers for action, and some as science SHOWS who are both dead in affect and effect in this way.

So I speak to both audiences here, FOR METAPHOR, in the reading arena, and the empaths among us are mostly not up to speed to deal with cold hearted souls, IN POSTING HERE AND ARE MORE OF THE READING THAN WRITING TYPE, OVERALL.

And I am not directing that at anyone personally in this conversation, but it is a proper metaphor for what science shows IS THE REALITY IN AT LEAST SOME PARTS OF THE SPECTRUM, and has also been identified by flesh and blood spectrum FOLKS AS JUST THAT ON THIS INTERNET SUPPORT SITE PER THEIR OWN EXPERIENCE OF LIFE, NO MATTER HOW SO-CALLED AUTISM POLITICS SAYS IT'S IMPOLITE TO TELL THE TRUTH. :)

IT'S truly amazing how just FOUR words can change a life TO

I CAN DO IT, RATHER THAN

It's impossible.

AND I AM FLESH AND PROOF OF THAT, DOCUMENTED as such ON A CASE STUDY BASIS, but hopefully NOT IMPOSSIBLE to replicate sometime in the future, WITH A MORE REFINED SCIENTIFIC METHOD IN DESIGN, as for now everyone I meet certainly IDENTIFIES BOTH ME AND WHAT I CAN DO NOW AS ONE OF A KIND.

And in my opinion, and the opinion of others through human history when a person attains this level of HUMAN ACHIEVEMENT in life, NOT TO HELP OTHERS ACHIEVE IT, IS not even an option as that is likely a Law of Human Nature too, which just rarely comes into play NOW for THOSE FOLKS who achieve MORE OF THEIR HUMAN POTENTIAL.

AND YES, THERE ARE CROSS CULTURAL labels for it, BUT BASICALLY FOR ME it is what it is and there is THE DRIVE TO PRACTICE IT AS SUCH, that is incredibly more powerful than me alone.

It is the HIGHER POWER AS METAPHOR that folks have been metaphorING in all of human history.

It needs no label, as it is a potential essence of human nature in MOTHER NATURE LAW speak.

But when seen in flesh and blood life, it is almost impossible to miss, even for the most dead heArted of souls, as metaphor only, please.

And all in my opinion, of course. :)

That helps me understand what you mean, but there is still a little confusion. Isn't the only way one would be recognized as an outstanding ballet dancer by dancing in ballets?

I am not recognized as an outstanding ballet dancer, only ballet dancer artist in general.

The only specific area I was recognized as expert in was martial arts dance.

All the lauding by the folks at the dance hall, and general public is just for my dance in general in FREE STYLE WAY.

In general, it is safe to say that no one has ever seen the kind of dance I do, FULLY, as truly I just let it flow and go with it, never even having to think about it per planning it, as emotions, then body motivates it first!

And again, if I did not already mention it, in discussion with you, I was extremely uncoordinated and uncomfortable in my own skin until age 53, and that comfort continues to increase in amazing bliss of balance as truly I have perfected the practice of balance to the point where I feel like I float on terrestrial plane, and often people remark that they think I HAVE SKATES ON.

BEFORE AGE 53, I seriously had to watch my wife walk and copy it to even get through Walmart, and was very anxious about walking alone. That was a very restrictive way of life. Truly I never understood what freedom can even mean until the last year and a half.

IT'S JUST LEVERAGE AND FEELING LEVERAGE that makes it works, and yeah, almost 3000 miles of recorded practice and potentially 4000 miles if all of it is measured in the last 16 months.

In effect, I've already crossed the continental U.S. in stores doing this martial arts and ballet style mix of dance walking.

If I lived a million years, I for one, cannot imagine a better feeling than this bliss, and HAD ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA IT WAS POSSIBLE, as before for all practical purposes I was so-called 'ret*d' in physical intelligence, emotional intelligence, sensory integration, and what some scientists now describe as the sixth sense of proprioception.

Feeling nature is a real and scientifically measurable phenomenon in this way, and actually therapists are starting to use movement therapy for more folks on the spectrum, and my attending therapist is suggesting to some of her spectrum patients that they move in dance free, as she HAS SEEN WHAT SHE, NOT ME, DESCRIBES AS A BONAFIDE MIRACLE in my recovery.

And yeah, she's Catholic so that has something to do with that. :)

Happy New Year to you. :)

Last edited by aghogday on 01 Jan 2015, 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

So often you have people questioning the value of art and only religious people question that of science and it's not every religion, mostly Christian.

It's great you have discovered art, too.

Thanks Ana. I was artistic in middle school, but people bullied me so much that I shut down in that way.

I feel that it is hard to be artistic when one's emotions are repressed, oppressed, or subjugated through illusory fears.

The area I live in was extremely oppressive in a patriarchal way, where any boy who smiled, was considered gay, and tortured for just being happy.

Yeah, boys need liberation too. :)

And I for one FIND NOW that EMOTION/CREATIVITY TRULY ALWAYS LIVED IN ME but was REPRESSED, OPPRESSED, AND SUBJUGATED THROUGH ILLUSORY FEARS and finally it ROSE UP IN ME like a Phoenix Rising from the Ashes, AND TRULY IS INTEGRAL IN MY RECOVERY FROM 19 Documented illnesses, AS WELL.

In my opinion, empirical evidence supports that too, as now I score an 11 on the AQ quiz as opposed to 44 to 45 before my recovery, 92 on the Aspie Quiz as opposed to 195, and 95 on the emotional intelligence test as opposed to the mid 50's before my recovery.

And a move in Personality Inventory from INTJ to ENFP.

It was the environment of culture that appears to have caused the disabling aspects of Autism, as well as all my illnesses, per the effect and affect of a lifetime of social stress in repressing my artistic/emotional nature.

It's ironic in a way that if one changes just one letter from U to R or R to U, aRtistic can become aUtistic or aUtistic can become aRtistic, and at least for me there is GREAT WISDOM IN the SYCHRONICITY BEHIND THIS coincidence.

Will it work for anyone else?

I suspect it can, and some therapists are finding it does, at least, in clinical practice.

Happy New Year 2015 to you, too. :)

That explains it better. I'm quite familiar with ballet and can't imagine how it would mix with martial arts.

There is a kind of karate I've seen in which the participants do it in very slow motion. Is that tai chi?

One night years ago, I was riding around Houston on a bicycle on night with someone who knew Houston quite well. We ran into a friend of his who told us he had something to show us. So the three of us rode over to this one building and took us inside. We then went up to the roof and he showed us the view of downtown from the roof. It was really a nice view.

After a bit, I started walking around to see what else there was to see. On the south side of the building, there was a building in which someone was doing tai chi (I think) in front of a large window. The other two came over and told me that was the Chinese Embassy and pointed out some of the other sights that could be seen including one nightclub that they said was one of the nicest in Houston about a block away. Within a couple of minutes, people started going around shutting all the curtains on that side of the Chinese Embassy.

Afterwards, when we walked to the other side of the building and looked down, the parking lot had two or three police cars in it! When we left they were still there but just watched us ride away without stopping us. Thinking about it later, I realized that they were probably there because we had been seen looking over the roof above the Chinese Embassy.

Yes, what I do has also been recognized as TAI CHI when I do it slowly but sometimes I do it 'lightening' fast too, and I do similar moves associated with ballet in how it is recognized by other folks, in the 'wild', so I call it a mixed martial arts and ballet style as truly there is no specific term for my style, as no one else does everything I do, in doing it.

In other words it is the best approximation currently available to term it unless I come up with my own term, which I care not too, as it changes constantly too, evolving in which ever way the physical intelligence and emotions associated with instinct and intuition take it.

And on top of that it would only be meaningful to me, as I have no plans to teach it, other than what folks see of it who have attempted to copy it at times, not successfully though, as of course they do not have 3 or 4 thousand miles of practice under their belt, AND it changes all the time, with no fore planned guideline or structure. So yes, it is practically impossible to teach it in a structured and guideline way.

And if you are familiar with Jean-Claude Van-Damme he incorporated ballet training with martial arts, and it was effective in increasing his proficiency in martial arts as well as an aesthetically 'pleasing' body form, in balance.

ON the other hand, Chuck Norris just looked like a squared away muscular guy, as he focused on martial arts and strength training only, as far as I know.

And Bruce Lee was one of a kind, kind of like me, but no, of course I am no Bruce Lee, as I've only been doing this for 16 months, at age 54.

But still, if I didn't see it for myself, I would HAVE never fathomed that I could ever do this, before I JUST DID IT! :)

That is what truly makes life amazing to me, the power to do what one used to think is totally impossible.

I no longer think that way about anything, now, in life, for evidenced and documented good reason, at least in part. :)

Happy NY Aghogday!