If the USA cannot provide universal health coverage,

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I'm for the programs that you speak of. I'm glad they are there and think they should be expanded if possible. But the government is not obligated to do it. Chaos would ensue if they stopped the programs now, but if they had never implemented them in the first place we would still be responsible for ourselves, sink or swim. They were not obligated to start them, but now that they have, they can't very well stop them. That doesn't make them obligated to take care of us. You said that without them you would be screwed, and yes you would, as would lots of other people. I don't want to see that. However, the government is not obligated to see to it that you, nor I, nor anyone else isn't screwed. I'm not saying they shouldn't have these things, they should. It's the right thing to do. I'm simply saying that they aren't obligated to. It's not their job.

We get food stamps. Without them we couldn't pay the bills, buy gas for my husband to go to work, and also eat. We get a little less than $500 a month to feed us. I do complain that it isn't enough, because we barely afford to get by as it is. I have to stretch the food stamps more than what is comfortable. They have disallowed my daughter and her fiance for the food stamps because they are in college and not working at least 20 hours a week. There are no jobs down here, they share one car and their classes are so that one can't work while the other is in class. Jobs are 30 minutes away because everybody in this small town hires relatives first. We aren't related to anybody and there aren't enough businesses here to support the economy. So, they aren't counted because they go to college and can't work. I don't think that's right for what the program does, but I do understand there is a limited amount of money and they have to find a way to distribute it. I wish we could get more food stamps. Even though I depend on it and I feel the way I do, I also know that the government is under no obligation to keep me from starving. Thats on me to keep me eating. Thats on my husband to provide for us. The government helps us and I'm so damn happy they do I don't know what to do. But I'm not entitled to it. I'm only entitled to it because the program exists and I am eligible because I fall within the parameters they set. None of us is entitled to any of the programs existence though. We all grew up with these programs in place so we see it as something the government is supposed to do. It's actually not. It's optional. It's the right thing to do, but it's still optional. They would be within their Constitutional rights to phase out the programs and leave us to fend for ourselves. I'm very glad they don't though.


While I was just now putting on my makeup I started thinking about the poster who said that government paid healthcare was important to his life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. I thought about it and there are some things that the government is really slacking in doing to secure my life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. Well, ok, not my life. Thats handled. But there are some issues with the last two and I'm going to tell you what they are. Liberty means you are free. Free to think and believe and worship as you want, free to be who you are, and free to come and go as you please, right? In this town there is no public transportation and it's not conducive to walking at all. I am not at liberty to go anywhere without public transportation, or ideally a car of my own because on a bus I might have groceries and they are hard to carry on a bus. Without a car, I can't drive 30 minutes to look for a job because there are none here. Without a car I'm stuck in this small repressive town where I don't feel free to be myself, ok I do but some people wouldn't and I'm just the type of person that most here wouldn't feel free to be. So, to secure my liberty the government needs to give me a car, and gas for it because I don't have a job in town. At least gas for a while, till I get a job. It's important.

For my pursuit of happiness I have several bones to pick. If I had been able to get my teeth capped I wouldn't be so insecure about my smile. Who cares that it's cosmetic, it would make me feel better about myself and then I'd probably have had a different life. Maybe finished college or something, who knows. I also hate my boobs and my butt. I have always wanted nice boobs and a booty that looks good but I don't have it and can't afford the implants for either. It would go a long way to make me happier, and that's the governments job and they aren't doing it. Now that I'm 50 and never had a chance to live my life with the pretty teeth and tits and ass I wanted, I also require a facelift so that I'll look 30, therfore effectively giving me back 20 years that the government stole from me by not making me look how I want to so I'd be more confident and happy!!

If I could have gone to a better college I might have finished. I think they should have sent me to an Ivy League school and even though I probably wasn't smart enough, I think they should have helped me through med and law school and given me both degrees because it's only fair, I'm sure I would have tried hard and thats what counts. Then they should have made people hire my clueless ass and made other people pay me to possibly have them thrown in jail or cut off the wrong arm. I'd be trying and it would be wrong to dash my hopes.

I have lots of other ideas of what they should do for me. Lots and lots. Right now my hooker friend is coming to give me a ride to the grocery store because I don't have a way, so I have to go. See? The government is making me consort with prostitutes because they are too cold and cheap to buy me the car that should rightfully be mine!!

Feel free to add your wants to the list. We will form a PAC and demand it. If they don't do it, I'm sure we can find some way to say they are discriminating and guilty of some ism, ist, or phobia against each and every one of us. I volunteer for being the first woman alive to stand up for the rights of bitchy women. If they don't like me, they are bitchist and THATS JUST WRONG!

Also there is a difference between thinking the government should provide you with every luxary in life, while you just sit back and do nothing or ever attempt anything....or thinking the government should provide help for highschool graduates to afford college, is very different than thinking the government ought to pay for everyone go to go some Ivy League College. Some people have problems like its winter and they cannot afford to heat their house, if they have a house, some people have medical conditions they cannot afford to properly take care of that insurance doesn't cover either a lot of people with mental health issues have a very hard getting treatment at all let alone adequate treatment and so people think the government is obligated to provide some kind of help/resources for that and I agree with those people.

As car isn't a luxury here, it's a neccessity. However I don't really think they should give me one. But without one, you can't really get anything done. No grocery shopping, no going to the dr, nothing. The town isn't conducive to walking because of steep hills, no sidewalks and narrow roads with deep ditches 6 inches from the pavement. The two mile area of the center of town is flat and has sidewalks, but you have to get there first, and I can't because of the roads. I can walk through the woods or down one steep road at certain times of the year, but mainly, a lot of people in town can't walk where we need to.

I really do understand what you are saying, and I was being faecetious because Walrus was saying that Obamacare wasn't enough that they government should give us Universal Healthcare. That means that the government pays for everyones healthcare even those who could otherwise afford it, unless they opt to go private pay. I'm against that. Thats taking it too far.

I'm fine with not graduating college, I made that decision and stick by it. As I said, I was being dramatic. They do have grants and financial aid for people. Thats how my daughter and her fiance are going and how my other daughter will. It's good to have and it's smart because the better educated the population is, the better for the entire country. It's a smart decision that benefits everyone. However, they are not obligated to.

I think they should have heating subsidies for people who can't afford heat in winter and I think mental health should be provided for those who can't afford it. I'm there with you on that and have been for a long time. If I had access to a shrink several years ago I wouldn't have tried to kill myself. I would have been on antidepressants. I got put on them at the hospital during the 72 hour hold but I couldn't afford to keep getting them. I want something to help with that kind of situation. I'd like to see the government address it. I think people need it very bad. However, the government is not obligated to provide it for us.

There is a difference between the needs of the citizens and the obligations of the government. It's a harsh truth. I'm not advocating that they just say f**k us all, let us do it on our own. Hell no. I don't want that at all. I'm saying that while they should do it, while it's right to do it, while it's smart to do it, they are not obligated to do it. They are only responsible for certain aspects of our lives and we are responsible for the rest, and it's another hard truth that many times we can't meet those responsibilities and would fail without help but the government is not obligated to help us with our private responsibilites and needs. They do, they should, doing more would be better for everyone, but they aren't obligated. Thats my point. They are not obligated to do so. Morally maybe, because since the programs started, it's part of American culture to have a safety net and that's good. We have it because we have enough money to provide it. But just because it's morally right doesn't mean it's Constitutionally mandated.

People should be as vocal as they want to be about what they need and think the government could provide or should provide, i'm fine with that. It's when they start saying that the government is obligated to provide it that I get antsy. It's a very small point, but a very important one.

Also Sweetleaf I wanted to say something to you ok? I know we don't get along and I dissed the hell out of you when you first got here and I didn't like you at first. Sorry about that. I really am and thats not just a cavalier apology. I jumped to conclusions about you and judged you wrongly. I sincerely apologize. What I wanted to say was that I've noticed that since you have been here you have become one of the best posters here. You have rational, well thought out arguments (even when they are wrong lol - which means I disagree with them ) and you are well spoken and put forth a convincing stance and while I haven't seen all your posts, you seem to be able to agree to disagree and seperate the opinion from the person. You really matured since you have been here. I'm not crediting being here with that, I'm just saying I've noticed that you have over the time you have been posting here.

I'd honestly like to see you as a mod some day. You are one of the more intelligent people here and you seem to be well versed in current events and know your subjects or at least have done research before you post. I just wanted to say I've noticed it and it's good. Hope you don't mind me saying that.

If the government really is not obligated to do anything to serve its people, then why should we even have one? No point if they can just rip that out from everyone who needs it at will because they aren't obligated to provide such things....It is actually very much the governments job to address social issues which includes the issue of poverty as well as needing to provide programs to assist with that. If its not obligated than there really is no reason for them to do a better job at providing help for mentally ill and such things.

The purpose of the government is not to guarantee people an easy life. People need to work for such things.

The purpose of government is to protect our rights, not entitlements. It is how we band together to protect ourselves from various threats.

Here's the link I promised David - the US system is the least efficient and the least equal of eleven studied nations, and it doesn't beat the NHS in a single category.