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Religions are fairy tales for adults. Should we encourage th

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adifferentname
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20 Aug 2015, 6:47 am

Campin_Cat wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
What you believe in is determined by what you find credible. In most cases, what you find credible is determined by your experiences along with a degree of inductive/deductive reason. You don't so much make a choice as come to a conclusion based on these and other factors.

Semantics.

Hardly semantics. A choice can only occur when two or more options are valid. This is not true where your beliefs are concerned.


I'm not going to address with whether "conclusion" vs. "choice" is semantics.


Bit bizarre to state this after you started said conversation in the first place.

Quote:
As for "your", I don't know if you're addressing me, personally, or using the word to refer to "people, in general". If you're referring to "people in general", I don't see why there are not 2 or more valid options, when someone is considering what to believe, in regard to religion. "Validity" is ALSO subjective.


You're crossing into the realm of hypothesis, supposition and opinion here, all of which have nothing to do with beliefs, which are presupposed.

Quote:
If you used "your" to address me, personally, I DO feel there are at least 2 valid options----as I have stated----I believe science is a valid option, and I believe God is a valid option----AND, I don't see why I, or someone else, can't believe-in, BOTH.


Science vs God is a false dichotomy, and the "your" was universal.



Campin_Cat
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20 Aug 2015, 7:33 am

adifferentname wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
What you believe in is determined by what you find credible. In most cases, what you find credible is determined by your experiences along with a degree of inductive/deductive reason. You don't so much make a choice as come to a conclusion based on these and other factors.

Semantics.

Hardly semantics. A choice can only occur when two or more options are valid. This is not true where your beliefs are concerned.


I'm not going to address with whether "conclusion" vs. "choice" is semantics.

Bit bizarre to state this after you started said conversation in the first place.

Campin_Cat wrote:
As for "your", I don't know if you're addressing me, personally, or using the word to refer to "people, in general". If you're referring to "people in general", I don't see why there are not 2 or more valid options, when someone is considering what to believe, in regard to religion. "Validity" is ALSO subjective.

You're crossing into the realm of hypothesis, supposition and opinion here, all of which have nothing to do with beliefs, which are presupposed.

Campin_Cat wrote:
If you used "your" to address me, personally, I DO feel there are at least 2 valid options----as I have stated----I believe science is a valid option, and I believe God is a valid option----AND, I don't see why I, or someone else, can't believe-in, BOTH.

Science vs God is a false dichotomy, and the "your" was universal.


LOL Wow.




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adifferentname
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20 Aug 2015, 11:05 am

Campin_Cat wrote:
LOL Wow.


You're either easily impressed or naturally excitable. Either way I'm not sure continuation of this discourse can be anything but unproductive.



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20 Aug 2015, 2:53 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
I promote seeking God as you do but to ignore religious evil is not the way to go.

"Evil" is subjective.

Correct. And if you do not subjectively see evil in homophobic and misogynous religions, your sense of morality is not worth much.


Well, firstly, "sense of morality" is subjective as well----you're saying that, seems like you're saying that if people don't believe as you do, they're wrong.

Secondly, I think it is wrong to throw-out the baby with the bathwater----meaning, in-this-instance, I believe that too many people too easily want to discount religion, as-a-WHOLE, when they encounter a "homophobic and misogynous" one. Most churches, for instance, teach "hate the sin, not the sinner". If I attended a church service where the preacher projected, from the pulpit, that everybody should hate gay people, I'd not return to that church----just as I wouldn't, if the preacher was teaching a hatred of women.

I am not aware of a religion, BTW, that holds hatred of women, as one of its tenets----I know that people, in general, in certain cultures, will proclaim that everybody should think of women, as less valuable, but.....


I stated rather clearly that I also did not want to end all religions. After all, I am a religionist myself.

And as far as I am concerned, one must hate women (in general) to deny them all first class citizen status.

Regards
DL



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20 Aug 2015, 2:57 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
You can encourage them but it most likely won't change their minds.


Do you think the indoctrination is too entrenched or do people just not care about their morals?

Regards
DL


It's entrenched and they want to believe in God and be with Godly folk.


I see that as them selling their souls and humanity to Satan, ( not the she exists ), just so they can believe in an imaginary God and be with delusional Godly folk.

Regards
DL



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20 Aug 2015, 3:05 pm

Grebels wrote:
DL, you will surely realise that a great many Christians agree with you about Constantine and other people at various times. We have to let go of that past. Many Christians try to go back to the original Bible texts as far as is possible. They are happy to leave all the years of tradition behind. They do not use the Gnostic texts, but how can you decide the Bible left to us by Constantine et al is any less true. There may have been a few alterations, but scholars know what they are.


If they are happy to leave years of tradition behind, why are women and gays still being denigrated and discriminated against without a just cause by so many of them?

As to the bible and its Gods, it like all other myths representing a God must be judged by the moral values it shows coming out of it.

I suggest that the bible is quite an immoral document and I am ready to argue most of it's so called moral tenets.

It's plagiarized version of the Golden Rule is about the only one I do not argue against.

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DL



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21 Aug 2015, 11:03 am

GnosticBishop wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
You can encourage them but it most likely won't change their minds.


Do you think the indoctrination is too entrenched or do people just not care about their morals?

Regards
DL


It's entrenched and they want to believe in God and be with Godly folk.


I see that as them selling their souls and humanity to Satan, ( not the she exists ), just so they can believe in an imaginary God and be with delusional Godly folk.

Regards
DL

If you actually went into a church, you wouldn't talk such nonsense. You look at a few bad examples, and say we are all like that. You can't paint everybody with the brush of your choosing. You have to take everybody equally. Period.


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21 Aug 2015, 12:51 pm

As Glebel says, and please accept that the USA is not the whole world.



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22 Aug 2015, 4:00 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
No, it won't. Telling people what to believe in and how to believe won't make such people any less superficial. It will actually make them more superficial.


So you do not think that delusional people can be helped then?

Logic, reason, and common sense would not be helpful?

Regards
DL


Although church & state should always remain separate, telling people to convert from whatever religion they grew up with to atheism would be a violation of people's constitutional right to free expression.


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22 Aug 2015, 4:46 pm

AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
No, it won't. Telling people what to believe in and how to believe won't make such people any less superficial. It will actually make them more superficial.


So you do not think that delusional people can be helped then?

Logic, reason, and common sense would not be helpful?

Regards
DL


Although church & state should always remain separate, telling people to convert from whatever religion they grew up with to atheism would be a violation of people's constitutional right to free expression.

Who said anything about "atheism"?

I believe that he is advocating a different brand of religion.



glebel
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22 Aug 2015, 4:57 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
No, it won't. Telling people what to believe in and how to believe won't make such people any less superficial. It will actually make them more superficial.


So you do not think that delusional people can be helped then?

Logic, reason, and common sense would not be helpful?

Regards
DL


Although church & state should always remain separate, telling people to convert from whatever religion they grew up with to atheism would be a violation of people's constitutional right to free expression.

Who said anything about "atheism"?

I believe that he is advocating a different brand of religion.

Irregardless, he is trying to force his 'religion' down other peoples throats. It is wrong.


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22 Aug 2015, 5:14 pm

glebel wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
AnonymousAnonymous wrote:
No, it won't. Telling people what to believe in and how to believe won't make such people any less superficial. It will actually make them more superficial.


So you do not think that delusional people can be helped then?

Logic, reason, and common sense would not be helpful?

Regards
DL


Although church & state should always remain separate, telling people to convert from whatever religion they grew up with to atheism would be a violation of people's constitutional right to free expression.

Who said anything about "atheism"?

I believe that he is advocating a different brand of religion.

Irregardless, he is trying to force his 'religion' down other peoples throats. It is wrong.


Well...if he wants the government to do the forcing then yes it is wrong.

But if he wants to go door-to-door knocking on doors to tell folks "the good news" without the help of the government then he is just doing what many sects do. :D



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22 Aug 2015, 5:16 pm

^^
Even though I am Catholic, whenever I see someone trying to talk a new member into "following the rules", I just want to tell that person to stop the brainwashing. People of faith follow their religions in different ways.


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25 Aug 2015, 8:40 pm

glebel wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
You can encourage them but it most likely won't change their minds.


Do you think the indoctrination is too entrenched or do people just not care about their morals?

Regards
DL


It's entrenched and they want to believe in God and be with Godly folk.


I see that as them selling their souls and humanity to Satan, ( not the she exists ), just so they can believe in an imaginary God and be with delusional Godly folk.

Regards
DL

If you actually went into a church, you wouldn't talk such nonsense. You look at a few bad examples, and say we are all like that. You can't paint everybody with the brush of your choosing. You have to take everybody equally. Period.


All who fly the cross are following an immoral creed that is based on human sacrifice and the punishment of the innocent instead of the guilty.

Stop whining and argue for their immoral tenets or go away cry baby.

Regards
DL



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28 Aug 2015, 11:31 am

GnosticBishop wrote:
glebel wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
You can encourage them but it most likely won't change their minds.


Do you think the indoctrination is too entrenched or do people just not care about their morals?

Regards
DL


It's entrenched and they want to believe in God and be with Godly folk.


I see that as them selling their souls and humanity to Satan, ( not the she exists ), just so they can believe in an imaginary God and be with delusional Godly folk.

Regards
DL

If you actually went into a church, you wouldn't talk such nonsense. You look at a few bad examples, and say we are all like that. You can't paint everybody with the brush of your choosing. You have to take everybody equally. Period.


All who fly the cross are following an immoral creed that is based on human sacrifice and the punishment of the innocent instead of the guilty.

Stop whining and argue for their immoral tenets or go away cry baby.

Regards
DL

Seems to me that you are the whiner. I have called you out on your "faith", and you can't give an answer. You have no faith other than hatred. Your a lovely person. And by the way, I'm not a whiner. I do my utmost to function in this world, how about you? How's life in your mommy's basement?


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