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cathylynn
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25 Sep 2015, 12:52 pm

Humanaut wrote:
izzeme wrote:
Whether these were terrorist acts is a matter of semantics...

Not really. It's a matter of methodology where motivational factors are part of the classification process. As of now there is absolutely nothing pointing in the direction of trans people being victims of Christian terror.


there's lots of circumstantial evidence. the fact that these crimes aren't often solved (likely also due to christian-based prejudice) makes it hard to definitively state that they are christian terror.



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25 Sep 2015, 1:08 pm

Humanaut wrote:
Edenthiel wrote:
1,731 cases of reported killings of trans and gender-diverse people from January 1st 2008 to December 31st 2014.

Are you suggesting that Christian terrorists are behind these killings?


No, of course not. They are Good Christians; just ask them. But before you react too strongly to that statement, I'd highly recommend questioning the origin of the current anti-gay and anti-trans fervor among certain segments of our populous. Their leaders are indeed stirring up a strong justification for attacks, going so far as to tell parents that if they don't force their children to stop being trans or gay, the parents themselves risk their 'eternal souls'. Likewise, said leaders promote from the Sunday pulpit the explicit rule that those who don't conform to good Christian assumptions of a sex and gender binary are a threat not only to Christianity and people's souls but to the entire human race. And as seasoned social and political leaders they know full well that all it takes is for a few of their followers to act on such pronouncements to terrorize those groups. Yet the leaders themselves will simply claim lack of culpability at any time...


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25 Sep 2015, 4:24 pm

glebel wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Humanaut wrote:
We are probably dealing with ordinary crime.


Not any ordinary crimes, but hate crimes. Violence against people of the LGBT community is based on hatred, more often than not based on prejudices the perpetrators had been raised with stemming from religion.

All crimes involving violence are, to me, hate crimes.


I disagree, because not every violent crime is motivated by hate. Some dirt bag sees an old lady with a purse, so mugs her by punching her in the mouth and taking her money. Said dirt bag didn't hate the old lady, he just wanted her money. Very different from the piece of sh*t who sees a trans person, and is so inflamed with hatred he decides it justifies him to attack and hurt that trans person. Hate crimes differ from other crimes because of the irrational emotion, as well as the idea that the act is justifiable, behind it.


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25 Sep 2015, 5:12 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
glebel wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Humanaut wrote:
We are probably dealing with ordinary crime.


Not any ordinary crimes, but hate crimes. Violence against people of the LGBT community is based on hatred, more often than not based on prejudices the perpetrators had been raised with stemming from religion.

All crimes involving violence are, to me, hate crimes.


I disagree, because not every violent crime is motivated by hate. Some dirt bag sees an old lady with a purse, so mugs her by punching her in the mouth and taking her money. Said dirt bag didn't hate the old lady, he just wanted her money. Very different from the piece of sh*t who sees a trans person, and is so inflamed with hatred he decides it justifies him to attack and hurt that trans person. Hate crimes differ from other crimes because of the irrational emotion, as well as the idea that the act is justifiable, behind it.

I believe the definition typically includes a bit about the purpose being to intimidate an entire group of people by attacking one example. As such, there must be a clear indication such as the use of slurs specific to that group. Now...how is that not "terrorism"?


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25 Sep 2015, 5:29 pm

Edenthiel wrote:
Now...how is that not "terrorism"?

It doesn't fit the common definition. We are dealing with hate crime, not terror.



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25 Sep 2015, 6:02 pm

Edenthiel wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
glebel wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Humanaut wrote:
We are probably dealing with ordinary crime.


Not any ordinary crimes, but hate crimes. Violence against people of the LGBT community is based on hatred, more often than not based on prejudices the perpetrators had been raised with stemming from religion.

All crimes involving violence are, to me, hate crimes.


I disagree, because not every violent crime is motivated by hate. Some dirt bag sees an old lady with a purse, so mugs her by punching her in the mouth and taking her money. Said dirt bag didn't hate the old lady, he just wanted her money. Very different from the piece of sh*t who sees a trans person, and is so inflamed with hatred he decides it justifies him to attack and hurt that trans person. Hate crimes differ from other crimes because of the irrational emotion, as well as the idea that the act is justifiable, behind it.

I believe the definition typically includes a bit about the purpose being to intimidate an entire group of people by attacking one example. As such, there must be a clear indication such as the use of slurs specific to that group. Now...how is that not "terrorism"?


I can see how a hate crime could easily become terrorism, if said hate crime is used to cow and suppress the object of that hate. Let it not be forgotten how the KKK was the country's oldest terrorist group.


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26 Sep 2015, 11:57 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Edenthiel wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
glebel wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Humanaut wrote:
We are probably dealing with ordinary crime.


Not any ordinary crimes, but hate crimes. Violence against people of the LGBT community is based on hatred, more often than not based on prejudices the perpetrators had been raised with stemming from religion.

All crimes involving violence are, to me, hate crimes.


I disagree, because not every violent crime is motivated by hate. Some dirt bag sees an old lady with a purse, so mugs her by punching her in the mouth and taking her money. Said dirt bag didn't hate the old lady, he just wanted her money. Very different from the piece of sh*t who sees a trans person, and is so inflamed with hatred he decides it justifies him to attack and hurt that trans person. Hate crimes differ from other crimes because of the irrational emotion, as well as the idea that the act is justifiable, behind it.

I believe the definition typically includes a bit about the purpose being to intimidate an entire group of people by attacking one example. As such, there must be a clear indication such as the use of slurs specific to that group. Now...how is that not "terrorism"?


I can see how a hate crime could easily become terrorism, if said hate crime is used to cow and suppress the object of that hate. Let it not be forgotten how the KKK was the country's oldest terrorist group.


BBC has an interesting article on it: Terrorism v hate crime: How US courts decide
BBC wrote:
Who gets called a terrorist by the media and politicians can be a matter of semantics and speculation.
Legally, there are some guidelines for who gets charged with terrorism - and also some room for interpretation.
...
Hate crimes are not separate charges, but an "enhancement" to an existing charge, like assault or murder. Prosecutors use this option to increase the severity of the punishment for those crimes - a potential sentence for a hate crime assault would be higher than an assault with no hate crime enhancement.
In the US, a hate crime is generally defined as "motivated in whole or in part by an offender's bias against a race, religion, disability, ethnic origin or sexual orientation".
Many - but not all - US states have their own hate crime statutes that apply to charges prosecuted under state laws.
Terrorism charges are discrete offences, including charges like material support for terrorist groups and use of weapons of mass destruction.
The US defines "domestic terrorism" as activities that meet three criteria - "dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law", are intended to intimidate or coerce civilians or governments, and occurs primarily within the US.
But "different parts of the US government tend to have different definitions", says Gary LaFree, director of National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism (Start).
The FBI and the Bureau of Prisons cannot even agree on the number of prisoners currently incarcerated on terrorism charges, he adds.


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01 Oct 2015, 6:34 pm

kamiyu910 wrote:
What causes people to deny that Christians can be terrorists as well? Or Jews? Or anyone other than Muslim? It makes no sense to me.


Half-assed, s**t research, and a Eurocentric/ Americentric worldview.

Here's a one that should be looked at. Also, FWIW, the so called 'Joel's Army' movement in the US has the potential to be quits damaging.

--Also, I wouldn't be surprised in the least that the Lord's Resistance Army proves to be recieving funds from Jesus People here in the USA.


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02 Oct 2015, 11:41 am

Fogman wrote:
kamiyu910 wrote:
What causes people to deny that Christians can be terrorists as well? Or Jews? Or anyone other than Muslim? It makes no sense to me.


Half-assed, s**t research, and a Eurocentric/ Americentric worldview.

Here's a one that should be looked at. Also, FWIW, the so called 'Joel's Army' movement in the US has the potential to be quits damaging.

--Also, I wouldn't be surprised in the least that the Lord's Resistance Army proves to be recieving funds from Jesus People here in the USA.

American Christians are well documented as having funded the anti-LGBT fervor on the African continent including the "Kill the Gays" law in Uganda. Likewise, they have been the primary - if not sole - source of funding for every ballot and legal fight against LGBT equality. Here in California and also in Texas, the signature drives to put anti-LGBT laws on the ballot (AB1266, HERO and the current attempt in CA to put a $4k bounty on any trans person found using a restroom) were done almost exclusively through far-right conservative Christian churches. The Prop8 fight was funded by Christians. Every non-discrimination law defeated & every "conscience clause" law in the last ten years was enacted by and for Christians, with the sole purpose of punishing LGBT people for not conforming to Christian ideals of "man" and "woman".

Again, I ask: If that is not terrorism, what is? If that is not hatred, what is?


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02 Oct 2015, 3:08 pm

Edenthiel wrote:
Fogman wrote:
kamiyu910 wrote:
What causes people to deny that Christians can be terrorists as well? Or Jews? Or anyone other than Muslim? It makes no sense to me.


Half-assed, s**t research, and a Eurocentric/ Americentric worldview.

Here's a one that should be looked at. Also, FWIW, the so called 'Joel's Army' movement in the US has the potential to be quits damaging.

--Also, I wouldn't be surprised in the least that the Lord's Resistance Army proves to be recieving funds from Jesus People here in the USA.

American Christians are well documented as having funded the anti-LGBT fervor on the African continent including the "Kill the Gays" law in Uganda. Likewise, they have been the primary - if not sole - source of funding for every ballot and legal fight against LGBT equality. Here in California and also in Texas, the signature drives to put anti-LGBT laws on the ballot (AB1266, HERO and the current attempt in CA to put a $4k bounty on any trans person found using a restroom) were done almost exclusively through far-right conservative Christian churches. The Prop8 fight was funded by Christians. Every non-discrimination law defeated & every "conscience clause" law in the last ten years was enacted by and for Christians, with the sole purpose of punishing LGBT people for not conforming to Christian ideals of "man" and "woman".

Again, I ask: If that is not terrorism, what is? If that is not hatred, what is?


To be sure, it is blind hatred and bigotry, absolutely no different from laws enacted against African Americans during the days of Jim Crow.


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02 Oct 2015, 10:46 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Edenthiel wrote:
Fogman wrote:
kamiyu910 wrote:
What causes people to deny that Christians can be terrorists as well? Or Jews? Or anyone other than Muslim? It makes no sense to me.


Half-assed, s**t research, and a Eurocentric/ Americentric worldview.

Here's a one that should be looked at. Also, FWIW, the so called 'Joel's Army' movement in the US has the potential to be quits damaging.

--Also, I wouldn't be surprised in the least that the Lord's Resistance Army proves to be recieving funds from Jesus People here in the USA.

American Christians are well documented as having funded the anti-LGBT fervor on the African continent including the "Kill the Gays" law in Uganda. Likewise, they have been the primary - if not sole - source of funding for every ballot and legal fight against LGBT equality. Here in California and also in Texas, the signature drives to put anti-LGBT laws on the ballot (AB1266, HERO and the current attempt in CA to put a $4k bounty on any trans person found using a restroom) were done almost exclusively through far-right conservative Christian churches. The Prop8 fight was funded by Christians. Every non-discrimination law defeated & every "conscience clause" law in the last ten years was enacted by and for Christians, with the sole purpose of punishing LGBT people for not conforming to Christian ideals of "man" and "woman".

Again, I ask: If that is not terrorism, what is? If that is not hatred, what is?


To be sure, it is blind hatred and bigotry, absolutely no different from laws enacted against African Americans during the days of Jim Crow.


Agreed.
And as a Christian, it really bothers me when people claim to be Christian and yet enact such hate and a desire for control, while even our bible says that God put our leaders there and we are to respect that, and pray for the leaders and follow the laws. We are not to force the world to conform to our standards... And I feel no problem with speaking out against hateful Christians.


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02 Oct 2015, 11:08 pm

Humanaut wrote:
Terrorism is a worldwide phenomenon not only limited to the United States. Terrorism in the United States is a mixed bag, while muslims and leftists are responsible for most of the terrorist attacks on a global scale.


It would appear most terrorism in the U.S is from extremists of the right wing.....based on that link. As for worldwide I could see muslim extremists committing the most terrorism currently I question that leftist extremists commit the second most terrorism but I'd need more information to be sure.


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03 Oct 2015, 1:59 am

kamiyu910 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Edenthiel wrote:
Fogman wrote:
kamiyu910 wrote:
What causes people to deny that Christians can be terrorists as well? Or Jews? Or anyone other than Muslim? It makes no sense to me.


Half-assed, s**t research, and a Eurocentric/ Americentric worldview.

Here's a one that should be looked at. Also, FWIW, the so called 'Joel's Army' movement in the US has the potential to be quits damaging.

--Also, I wouldn't be surprised in the least that the Lord's Resistance Army proves to be recieving funds from Jesus People here in the USA.

American Christians are well documented as having funded the anti-LGBT fervor on the African continent including the "Kill the Gays" law in Uganda. Likewise, they have been the primary - if not sole - source of funding for every ballot and legal fight against LGBT equality. Here in California and also in Texas, the signature drives to put anti-LGBT laws on the ballot (AB1266, HERO and the current attempt in CA to put a $4k bounty on any trans person found using a restroom) were done almost exclusively through far-right conservative Christian churches. The Prop8 fight was funded by Christians. Every non-discrimination law defeated & every "conscience clause" law in the last ten years was enacted by and for Christians, with the sole purpose of punishing LGBT people for not conforming to Christian ideals of "man" and "woman".

Again, I ask: If that is not terrorism, what is? If that is not hatred, what is?


To be sure, it is blind hatred and bigotry, absolutely no different from laws enacted against African Americans during the days of Jim Crow.


Agreed.
And as a Christian, it really bothers me when people claim to be Christian and yet enact such hate and a desire for control, while even our bible says that God put our leaders there and we are to respect that, and pray for the leaders and follow the laws. We are not to force the world to conform to our standards... And I feel no problem with speaking out against hateful Christians.


Exactly my opinion.


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