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Is the American sense of justice and morality dead?

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Kraichgauer
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31 Oct 2015, 6:43 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Capitalism distributes the wealth most fairly across the world.

One highly paid worker in America losses his job, while some dirt poor Chinese worker gets one.

Now that's justice and morality!!

Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump advocate for selfishness, to keep the money for yourself, and not share it with the poorest of the world.


By that thinking, the well paid American worker gets thrown into poverty, while the Chinese peasant, with all his hopes placed on the promise of capitalism, finds himself not just still poor, but also worked to death (literally) under the charge of new, tyrannical masters serving the free market. With today's global free market, it's poverty that's being distributed world wide.


We see capitalists differently.

You see ...
Image

I see ... them provide employment opportunities for people, and wealth creation for their locality

Image


Capitalism certainly isn't helping workers in America. The promise of having our parent's and grandparent's lives is slipping out of the hands of too many people in this country. Give it time, and people in the third world will realize capitalists have no loyalty but to the all mighty dollar, when those same capitalists jump ship with their businesses after they figure their workers are getting too high a wage and benefits.


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GoonSquad
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01 Nov 2015, 8:25 am

^^^ Here's the thing...

There's smart, far-sighted capitalism and then there's dumb, short-sighted capitalism.

The current global capitalists are obsessed with chasing low wages. In the short term this helps profits, but in the long term in hurts consumer markets. American consumers lose buying power because good jobs are gone and wages are lower. At the same time emerging markets never really emerge because new, 3rd world workers are not paid enough the buy the goods they produce. That's dumb capitalism...

On the bright side, some firms are beginning to understand this. Walmart, one of the main companies to push this dumb form of globalism, is changing strategies. Faced with shrinking domestic sales and disappointing sales in places like China, they are encouraging suppliers to bring manufacturing back to North America and they're raising wages for their own employees.

In the short term, this has hurt their bottom line (and stock price), but long term this will help regrow/repair the domestic market. Walmart had to learn the hard way--if you starve the golden goose, eventually it will stop laying eggs.

There's no doubt that global economic development is essential (see the poverty/population thread) but in needs to be done right. A Fordist, high wage/high efficiency model is the way to go. Economies don't work unless workers are paid enough to buy the goods they produce.


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Kraichgauer
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01 Nov 2015, 1:55 pm

GoonSquad wrote:
^^^ Here's the thing...

There's smart, far-sighted capitalism and then there's dumb, short-sighted capitalism.

The current global capitalists are obsessed with chasing low wages. In the short term this helps profits, but in the long term in hurts consumer markets. American consumers lose buying power because good jobs are gone and wages are lower. At the same time emerging markets never really emerge because new, 3rd world workers are not paid enough the buy the goods they produce. That's dumb capitalism...

On the bright side, some firms are beginning to understand this. Walmart, one of the main companies to push this dumb form of globalism, is changing strategies. Faced with shrinking domestic sales and disappointing sales in places like China, they are encouraging suppliers to bring manufacturing back to North America and they're raising wages for their own employees.

In the short term, this has hurt their bottom line (and stock price), but long term this will help regrow/repair the domestic market. Walmart had to learn the hard way--if you starve the golden goose, eventually it will stop laying eggs.

There's no doubt that global economic development is essential (see the poverty/population thread) but in needs to be done right. A Fordist, high wage/high efficiency model is the way to go. Economies don't work unless workers are paid enough to buy the goods they produce.


Amen.


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GnosticBishop
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03 Nov 2015, 4:58 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
James Elroy, in his novel American Tabloid, had written about America and it's sense of morality (paraphrased probably, as I'm going by memory): "America was never innocent. We popped our cherry when we came over on the Mayflower."


Be it Canada, the U.S. or South America, all who found them had little in the way of morals or justice in mind.

That aside, we have progressed and move forward.

I take it you still think the U.S. has a ways to go.

What do you think it will take for Americans to form a moral outlook?

Regards
DL


I think we can and do get the right thing done, but there is also plenty of resistance to getting it done. Case in point: civil rights for African Americans years ago had to be shoved down the throats of many. Today, most Americans couldn't imagine feeling the same racism their parents and grandparents had fostered, but that was only because the few had convinced the powers in the federal government to legislate against legalized and popular hate. Same thing today with the rights for gay Americans. Homophobia is the rallying cry today for the forces of popular reaction, and yet before gay marriage was the law of the land there was growing tolerance - surprisingly - at the state level. Unfortunately, old hatreds are still alive and burning, as shown with the unequal treatment blacks receive at the hands of the police and the courts, and how violent gay bashing is still a common occurrence. Some Americans embrace notions of justice and morality more so than other Americans.


As happens world wide. We definitely love to hate. It must be tied to our love of drama.

Watch people drop their preacher when he begins to tell the truth and push love for all instead of hate for the others.
I first expected white parishioners but I was only partially surprised that it was not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv_rmQu ... r_embedded

Not quite doing unto others eh?

Regards
DL


I clicked on the Youtube link, and was informed that video did not exist.


Apologies.

Here s the title and link that just worked.

Carlton Pearson: To Hell and Back (Part 1)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv_rmQu ... r_embedded

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
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03 Nov 2015, 5:11 pm

GoonSquad wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
James Elroy, in his novel American Tabloid, had written about America and it's sense of morality (paraphrased probably, as I'm going by memory): "America was never innocent. We popped our cherry when we came over on the Mayflower."


Be it Canada, the U.S. or South America, all who found them had little in the way of morals or justice in mind.

That aside, we have progressed and move forward.

I take it you still think the U.S. has a ways to go.

What do you think it will take for Americans to form a moral outlook?

Regards
DL

A majority of the middle class getting screwed really hard... just like always.


The average American must have one tough anal orifice. :oops: That or you have way too many gays who do not mind it. :lol:

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
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03 Nov 2015, 5:45 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Capitalism distributes the wealth most fairly across the world.

One highly paid worker in America losses his job, while some dirt poor Chinese worker gets one.

Now that's justice and morality!!

Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump advocate for selfishness, to keep the money for yourself, and not share it with the poorest of the world.


You must have missed that much of that link in the O.P. shows Mr. Sanders speaking of redistribution.

That is not selfishness.

I do not know Trumps position on redistribution. Do you?

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
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03 Nov 2015, 6:40 pm

ZenDen wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
ZenDen wrote:
Morality and Justice in the United States of America is DEAD? DEAD?

You must be wrong....here, I'll ask this Native American over here if that's true. HaHa^2.

Rich, powerful and greedy people have always been part of the human condition.

They've always owned/controlled politicians and created laws for their own benefit.

The dream of hope, charity and freedom for all was written for and by rich people.

Please don't let yourself be fooled.


So if the Americans are aware of all this, and allow it, that would indicate that their sense of morality and justice is dead. Right?

Regards
DL


You said: "So if the Americans are aware of all this, and allow it, that would indicate that their sense of morality and justice is dead. Right?"

Perhaps you could show me how ANY government in the world has shown a consistent regard for the poor and weak instead of letting the rich and powerful accumulate more wealth and power.

Actually I believe what I said applies to each and every country in this world.

There may be countries paying lip service to humanitarianism but it always seems somehow to benefit the wealthy, and the poor wind up poorer (or dead) and the rich, richer. Morality and justice are tools of the rich, even in poor countries.


I agree that our oligarch owners manipulate their/our governments to their own greedy ends.
It is the solution that escapes us.

Regards
DL



Kraichgauer
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03 Nov 2015, 8:08 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
James Elroy, in his novel American Tabloid, had written about America and it's sense of morality (paraphrased probably, as I'm going by memory): "America was never innocent. We popped our cherry when we came over on the Mayflower."


Be it Canada, the U.S. or South America, all who found them had little in the way of morals or justice in mind.

That aside, we have progressed and move forward.

I take it you still think the U.S. has a ways to go.

What do you think it will take for Americans to form a moral outlook?



Regards
DL


I think we can and do get the right thing done, but there is also plenty of resistance to getting it done. Case in point: civil rights for African Americans years ago had to be shoved down the throats of many. Today, most Americans couldn't imagine feeling the same racism their parents and grandparents had fostered, but that was only because the few had convinced the powers in the federal government to legislate against legalized and popular hate. Same thing today with the rights for gay Americans. Homophobia is the rallying cry today for the forces of popular reaction, and yet before gay marriage was the law of the land there was growing tolerance - surprisingly - at the state level. Unfortunately, old hatreds are still alive and burning, as shown with the unequal treatment blacks receive at the hands of the police and the courts, and how violent gay bashing is still a common occurrence. Some Americans embrace notions of justice and morality more so than other Americans.


As happens world wide. We definitely love to hate. It must be tied to our love of drama.

Watch people drop their preacher when he begins to tell the truth and push love for all instead of hate for the others.
I first expected white parishioners but I was only partially surprised that it was not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv_rmQu ... r_embedded

Not quite doing unto others eh?

Regards
DL


I clicked on the Youtube link, and was informed that video did not exist.


Apologies.

Here s the title and link that just worked.

Carlton Pearson: To Hell and Back (Part 1)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv_rmQu ... r_embedded

Regards
DL


Danke.


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-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer