How accurate is my inferential proof of Reincarnation?

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Fnord
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11 Feb 2016, 7:34 am

if reincarnation is real, then somewhere out there is a twelve-year old kid with my father's memories, and a thirty-eight year old adult with my grandfather's memories.

Why haven't these people tried to contact anyone in my family?


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Deltaville
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11 Feb 2016, 7:37 am

Fnord wrote:
if reincarnation is real, then somewhere out there is a twelve-year old kid with my father's memories, and a thirty-eight year old adult with my grandfather's memories.

Why haven't these people tried to contact anyone in my family?


Kind of unrelated, but that quote sort of reminds when I took electrical engineering courses as electives, and we were taught that current 'knows' and remembers which way to travel.


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NewTime
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11 Feb 2016, 8:14 am

Fnord wrote:
if reincarnation is real, then somewhere out there is a twelve-year old kid with my father's memories, and a thirty-eight year old adult with my grandfather's memories.

Why haven't these people tried to contact anyone in my family?


Not really. If reincarnation is real, people don't remember their previous lives.



Fnord
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11 Feb 2016, 9:29 am

NewTime wrote:
Fnord wrote:
if reincarnation is real, then somewhere out there is a twelve-year old kid with my father's memories, and a thirty-eight year old adult with my grandfather's memories. Why haven't these people tried to contact anyone in my family?
Not really. If reincarnation is real, people don't remember their previous lives.
Why? Since some people claim that reincarnation is real, then they must have a reason for believing it; but if no one has any memory of their past lives, then what proof is there for reincarnation?


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NewTime
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11 Feb 2016, 9:45 am

Fnord wrote:
NewTime wrote:
Fnord wrote:
if reincarnation is real, then somewhere out there is a twelve-year old kid with my father's memories, and a thirty-eight year old adult with my grandfather's memories. Why haven't these people tried to contact anyone in my family?
Not really. If reincarnation is real, people don't remember their previous lives.
Why? Since some people claim that reincarnation is real, then they must have a reason for believing it; but if no one has any memory of their past lives, then what proof is there for reincarnation?


Most people don't remember being an infant, but they certainly were one. Just because people don't remember previous lives, doesn't mean that reincarnation is not real.



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11 Feb 2016, 10:25 am

I've read of people who have birthmarks corresponding to the fatal wounds they apparently sustained in the former life. They also have an almost irrational fear of whatever killed them in that life: e.g. someone who claims to have drowned will have an almost pathological fear of water.


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Hopper
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11 Feb 2016, 11:17 am

As I wondered very early on in this thread - if there is reincarnation on this individual level, where are all the new people coming from? (And as 100000fireflies noted, 'where did the old ones'). There's at least 6 billion people on this planet. At some point there were far fewer. So, is reincarnation for the few, the great majority of us having only this life? And if so, how does that work?

A friend once theorised (well, tangentially wondered) that perhaps there is a singular, universal consciousness and each individual is a particular representation and experience of this. The individual is not reincarnated - they very much disappear come bodily death, but consciousness is re-used and as such past-life memories and other oddities may occur.


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Fnord
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11 Feb 2016, 4:43 pm

NewTime wrote:
Fnord wrote:
NewTime wrote:
Fnord wrote:
if reincarnation is real, then somewhere out there is a twelve-year old kid with my father's memories, and a thirty-eight year old adult with my grandfather's memories. Why haven't these people tried to contact anyone in my family?
Not really. If reincarnation is real, people don't remember their previous lives.
Why? Since some people claim that reincarnation is real, then they must have a reason for believing it; but if no one has any memory of their past lives, then what proof is there for reincarnation?
Most people don't remember being an infant, but they certainly were one. Just because people don't remember previous lives, doesn't mean that reincarnation is not real.
Memories of being an infant would be understandable, since "infant" is the early stage of one life. Reincarnation, however, is two difference lives. Without valid memories of previous lives, no evidence can be forwarded to prove reincarnation.

I have a birthmark, too. Maybe I should go searching through my history books to find someone famous who received a fatal wound at that location. Then I too could impress people by claiming that this mere coincidence has some kind of spiritual significance.

I have a fear of heights. Maybe I should go searching through my history books to find someone famous who was killed in a fall. Then I too could impress people by claiming that this mere coincidence has some kind of spiritual significance.

:roll: Maybe I should stop trying to rationalize someone else's fantasies ...


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techstepgenr8tion
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11 Feb 2016, 6:03 pm

Deltaville wrote:
@techstep,

Out of curiosity what is your personal beliefs on the notion of whether God exists, or not?

I tend to think the most likely scenario is a panentheistic monism of sorts where, in terms of agenda, the All wouldn't be conscious in the way we'd standardly think of - that is it very well would be but on a level we simply could not relate to nor would it, at its level, have much identification or feeling for an individual being past for what it has for everything else that it is.

Something I'm actually hoping to confirm for myself as I progress in what I'm doing is contact what's known as a person's Holy Guardian Angel. In a particular manner calling it a guardian angel is a misnomer, it's a hypothetical node of consciousness that's us in a much greater sense, superior to us, which usually is cloaked quite deeply in the background of life and has an unseen hand effect that becomes more pronounced as someone takes on particular mystic and magical disciplines. Both Golden Dawn and Thelemic traditions are big on this, in Rosicrucianism it's considered the Master Within, and it's something that the more accredited and practical thinkers of those communities with books and youtube presence tend to be quite dead-pan serious in describing the steps that you take toward coming in contact with that part of your self which is 'more you than you' and they're equally specific about the steps that get a person there. In a sort of way it's closer to the personal God that Christianity would believe in just that, well, there's a different one for each person.

From this standpoint, while I like to at least throw things out here to at least jostle people's comfort zone's who've been equally dead-pan materialists I realize that it's not something I'd want to sell per say, more like a reflection of 'shut up and calculate' I'm by and large pursuing the 'shut up and meditate' trajectory to either confirm or debunk these things for myself. I already have a pretty firm hypothesis that being able to open hypnogogia while in an awake or at least awake-enough state is a big part of opening the circuit to a broader outreach into this territory. Aside from that - whether that's all there is, whether it's just a primer zone for much deeper processes - I don't know, and I admit that there's only one way for me to find out (other people's accounts not withstanding).


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killerBunny
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11 Feb 2016, 7:47 pm

Deltaville wrote:
killerBunny wrote:
Accurately deluded.


Was this a result after reading my post, or summary judgement?


Summary reading of your post. I was being polite. Don't use concepts you don't understand to support your apriori ideas that are to put it bluntly absurd. Or do. But prepare for a torrent of people do call it for what it is.



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11 Feb 2016, 10:18 pm

edgar Cayce had a lot to say about reincarnation, as did Robert Monroe but in a different way.



Fnord
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12 Feb 2016, 7:16 am

A lot of people have a lot to say about reincarnation; but so far, no one has ever presented irrefutable proof that it's real, or even how it allegedly works.


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12 Feb 2016, 7:51 am

Fnord wrote:
A lot of people have a lot to say about reincarnation; but so far, no one has ever presented irrefutable proof that it's real, or even how it allegedly works.


As a child, I had VERY clear memories of living a past life (as a female on a farm, probably in the United States Midwest) and have known a number of young children to talk very matter of factly about their past lives like it was no big deal. One even told me about being a crane operator in very specific detail and changed the subject when I tried to ask follow up questions. I just assumed everyone had those kinds of memories until the bullying started and I realized how 'weird' I was. This wasn't picked up from TV or relatives as I lived a VERY sheltered life and grew up in the city.

This doesn't prove anything and probably never will and if reincarnation is real, I have no sweet clue how it would work. Still, I get tired of 'skeptics' who immediately dismiss personal experience as 'fantasy'. It's the same way people would dismiss my memories of being a toddler: I went back to the area where my preschool was a few years ago and it matched perfectly with how I remembered it, right down to the colour and shape of the door handles. Of course, it seem much smaller now but the layout is exactly as I remember it. I know this is my 'current' life but you wouldn't believe how few people can believe it.



Fnord
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12 Feb 2016, 9:21 am

I knew kids like that. They could allegedly remember past lives in exquisite detail, except for a few things like the name of their alleged former identity, and the address of where that person allegedly lived.

Those are the details that could help a person prove that they had lived before; but none of the people that I have spoken to has ever provided that information.


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12 Feb 2016, 10:57 am

Fnord wrote:
I knew kids like that. They could allegedly remember past lives in exquisite detail, except for a few things like the name of their alleged former identity, and the address of where that person allegedly lived.

Those are the details that could help a person prove that they had lived before; but none of the people that I have spoken to has ever provided that information.

I agree. Unfortunately I have not found the 'smoking gun' that would led me to the point beyond doubt but that doesn't mean there isn't something to catch my attention. Kids are pretty honest (that's why I get along so well with them) and why would pre-school children lie about that?

One thing I CAN say is that I had a recurring dream about a number of places I never visited in real life, nor were they famous places like the CN Tower or the Chrysler Building. Shockingly, I actually found that three of them did exist. The latest one was when I was desperately trying to find parking in Boston and the parking garage was identical to the one in my dream. It was eerie and although proves nothing tells me there might be something to this reincarnation/higher self business.



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12 Feb 2016, 3:01 pm

(clicky)the curious case of the barra boy
"...he stated that he ended up in his mother’s tummy after he fell through a hole."