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androbot01
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13 Feb 2016, 8:28 am

On reviewing this thread I notice that the idea that children give purpose to the lives of their parents occurs several times. I wonder if children somehow validate parents' self-image. Kids do look up to their parents when they're young. They're kind of like a captive audience. I can understand this ... children would add an additional element of reality and value to their parents lives. Like a living personal mythology. Perhaps this is why parents relish their children's achievements; they are markers to the importance of a lineage.



kraftiekortie
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13 Feb 2016, 8:53 am

It is instinctual for a person to want to produce progeny (kids) in order to keep Homo sapiens from becoming extinct.

People are also delighted with babies, since they are seen as being oh so innocent. They are delighted with their happiness, unabated by society. Yes, they also cry and become unhappy, too---but their ability to rebound from being unhappy is amazingly high. They also heal much faster from such things as cuts, bumps/bruises, and fractures.

Based on instinct, again, people want to raise kids to represent their species well, a variation of "keeping Homo sapiens from becoming extinct."

Frequently, people desire kids so that they can vicariously live through their kids. People might have had dreams dashed or deferred--now, they have somebody, their child, who could, vicariously, fulfill their dreams for them. Yes, that's selfish, obviously. But it's just an explanation, not a stamp of approval.



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13 Feb 2016, 10:59 am

androbot01 wrote:
On reviewing this thread I notice that the idea that children give purpose to the lives of their parents occurs several times. I wonder if children somehow validate parents' self-image. Kids do look up to their parents when they're young. They're kind of like a captive audience. I can understand this ... children would add an additional element of reality and value to their parents lives. Like a living personal mythology. Perhaps this is why parents relish their children's achievements; they are markers to the importance of a lineage.


"like living personal mythology"
May i just "like it"?

Having children, maybe a way to feel like a greek god for a while. :)



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13 Feb 2016, 11:12 am

The late, great George Carlin on "child worship":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6wOt2iXdc4


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androbot01
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13 Feb 2016, 12:13 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
The late, great George Carlin on "child worship":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6wOt2iXdc4


I remember the teachers going on about how each child was special. They never made me feel very special though.

Carlin was great.



AusWolf
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14 Feb 2016, 9:04 am

androbot01 wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
The late, great George Carlin on "child worship":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6wOt2iXdc4


I remember the teachers going on about how each child was special. They never made me feel very special though.

Carlin was great.

I think this "children are special" issue must be an American thing (correct me if I'm wrong). No one ever told me that I was special. I was only expected to study hard without being told why.

The only thing I notice here in Hungary is that mothers with babies and little children seem to have a sense of being privileged. They take your seats on buses, they move ahead in lines, and you should step aside when they are coming in your way. I think this is crazy. Why should I respect them more than I respect anyone else? It was their idea to pop out a baby, not mine, so they should bear the consequences, not me. "Mother privilege" is just discrimination against people without children.



kraftiekortie
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14 Feb 2016, 9:33 am

It's for the same reason why, within many cultures, people give up their seats on public transportation to elderly people.

People know how much mothers (and fathers) struggle with young children.

Even more so, I believe people should give up their seats on public transportation to pregnant people.

It's not a matter of "respecting" them more. It's a matter of easing their struggles for the moment.



AusWolf
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14 Feb 2016, 9:38 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
It's for the same reason why, within many cultures, people give up their seats on public transportation to elderly people.

People know how much mothers (and fathers) struggle with young children.

Even more so, I believe people should give up their seats on public transportation to pregnant people.

It's not a matter of "respecting" them more. It's a matter of easing their struggles for the moment.

I agree that it's nice when people do that. I just don't agree with mothers demanding people to do it, and to respect their children playing around in a supermarket, etc. I mean, come on, the supermarket is for buying things, not for children to play.



kraftiekortie
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14 Feb 2016, 12:14 pm

Yep...people shouldn't demand anything! That's arrogance.

Yes, kids should learn the value of restraint in public places. They should see the supermarket as a place to have fun, but not to run around disturbing other customers.



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14 Feb 2016, 5:49 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Yep...people shouldn't demand anything! That's arrogance.

Yes, kids should learn the value of restraint in public places. They should see the supermarket as a place to have fun, but not to run around disturbing other customers.


That's the job of the parents to teach the children proper behavior.


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14 Feb 2016, 7:44 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Yep...people shouldn't demand anything! That's arrogance.

Yes, kids should learn the value of restraint in public places. They should see the supermarket as a place to have fun, but not to run around disturbing other customers.


As someone who as a child was dragged down the aisle of many super markets by my slower than f**k mother I can tell you it was anything but a place of fun. Every aisle seemed to take all day and some aisles were done more than once.


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14 Feb 2016, 7:50 pm

Raptor wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Yep...people shouldn't demand anything! That's arrogance.

Yes, kids should learn the value of restraint in public places. They should see the supermarket as a place to have fun, but not to run around disturbing other customers.


As someone who as a child was dragged down the aisle of many super markets by my slower than f**k mother I can tell you it was anything but a place of fun. Every aisle seemed to take all day and some aisles were done more than once.


Nothing about supermarkets and the word fun correlate. My father was a manager of a grocery store, I practically lived there a seventh of the time. It sucked



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16 Feb 2016, 12:08 pm

Feyokien wrote:
Nothing about supermarkets and the word fun correlate. My father was a manager of a grocery store, I practically lived there a seventh of the time. It sucked

I pretty much grew up in retail stores. The grocery store was fun to me: used to love taking the ice from the produce department to make a mini-snowball, try to sneak a treat into the cart and fight with my brother to push the cart. Ahh, it wasn't a chore like it is as an adult!



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16 Feb 2016, 12:58 pm

AusWolf wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
The late, great George Carlin on "child worship":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6wOt2iXdc4


I remember the teachers going on about how each child was special. They never made me feel very special though.

Carlin was great.

I think this "children are special" issue must be an American thing (correct me if I'm wrong). No one ever told me that I was special. I was only expected to study hard without being told why.

The only thing I notice here in Hungary is that mothers with babies and little children seem to have a sense of being privileged. They take your seats on buses, they move ahead in lines, and you should step aside when they are coming in your way. I think this is crazy. Why should I respect them more than I respect anyone else? It was their idea to pop out a baby, not mine, so they should bear the consequences, not me. "Mother privilege" is just discrimination against people without children.


Well the way I see it if a woman carrying a baby and maybe even hauling a stroller gets on the bus, she should have priority in the first few seats...if one isn't open then yes the thing to do is move your butt so she can sit down. Doesn't really seem like respecting them more seems more to be considering someone with a baby is probably exerting more effort to run errands than someone without a baby....so nothing wrong with a little consideration on the bus.


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16 Feb 2016, 1:01 pm

AusWolf wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
It's for the same reason why, within many cultures, people give up their seats on public transportation to elderly people.

People know how much mothers (and fathers) struggle with young children.

Even more so, I believe people should give up their seats on public transportation to pregnant people.

It's not a matter of "respecting" them more. It's a matter of easing their struggles for the moment.

I agree that it's nice when people do that. I just don't agree with mothers demanding people to do it, and to respect their children playing around in a supermarket, etc. I mean, come on, the supermarket is for buying things, not for children to play.


Yes but try keeping young children from getting at all playful when running errands with them. They get bored then they entertain themselves. Of course parents shouldn't let them run around all over the store...but they are going to move about and be active at least and maybe talking or giggling about things. That is just what kids do.


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AusWolf
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16 Feb 2016, 2:44 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Well the way I see it if a woman carrying a baby and maybe even hauling a stroller gets on the bus, she should have priority in the first few seats...if one isn't open then yes the thing to do is move your butt so she can sit down. Doesn't really seem like respecting them more seems more to be considering someone with a baby is probably exerting more effort to run errands than someone without a baby....so nothing wrong with a little consideration on the bus.

If I see someone struggle, then I will move my butt, of course, or even help them if they need it, but demanding me to do so is plain rude. I'm a human being, not a helping machine. The only thing I owe any stranger is to let them be.

In other words: people with difficulties should not have priority. Everyone has equal rights. They can have priority because we are nice people and consider them. It's a nice gesture, not an obligation. That's why we thank people when they help us.