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How to be proud of being White without being Racist.

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sly279
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15 Feb 2016, 5:35 pm

wilburforce wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Hopper wrote:
sly279 wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
Why be proud of something that isn't an accomplishment?

Would you apply this toward black pride,gay pride, Asian pride, Mexican pride Etc

Or is it only white people who can't have pride?


The history and concept of 'pride' can be complicated, but at base it's a stand against being told you should be ashamed of what you are, that you are lesser, that you should know your place.

There is simply no equivalent history of a campaign against white people qua white people as there is black people or gay people. Lip service paid to historical atrocities (and, to a lesser extent, ongoing issues) aside, the social assumption is that of course you're proud of being white.

For that reason, I see no need to be proud of being white, though one need not feel ashamed of it either. Better to do things and be of a character that inspires pride, rather than seek it in an ethnicity.


Wtf, white people are told all the time to be ashamed of being white
You killed millions, you enslaved blacks. You conquered the world, you're responsible for the holocaust. Wtf I was only born in 1988 I didn't do any of those things, I refuse to feel ashamed for actions I or my family never did. I refuse to feel ashamed because I was born white.


I am white and no one has ever told me I should be ashamed of that. Where are all these people telling white people to be ashamed? I have never encountered one.


Cnn, nbc, cbs, Washington post, Newyork times,

I like Morgan freeman. Why have a black history month. Black history is human history.



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15 Feb 2016, 5:36 pm

sly279 wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
Why be proud of something that isn't an accomplishment?

Would you apply this toward black pride, gay pride, Asian pride, Mexican pride Etc

Or is it only white people who can't have pride?

Of course. Gay Pride festivals - for instance - really only make sense as long as there is discrimination against gay individuals - otherwise it wouldn't be an accomplishment for a gay person to publicly affirm their sexual orientation.

In Denmark, for instance, gay pride is a pretty shallow concept considering that two of the nine current party leaders (including the leader of the Conservative Party) in the Danish parliament are gay.

Furthermore, belonging to a *group* that may - on average - share some characteristics doesn't necessarily mean that this characteristic applies to a specific individual. This is known as the ecological fallacy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_fallacy

... which makes it even less meaningful to attach value to some superficial group membership.

Now, someone once said something profound in this regard... what was it? *mumble* color, skin *mumble* content, character*... nah, I can't remember...



Last edited by GGPViper on 15 Feb 2016, 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wilburforce
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15 Feb 2016, 5:37 pm

sly279 wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Wtf, white people are told all the time to be ashamed of being white
You killed millions, you enslaved blacks. You conquered the world, you're responsible for the holocaust. Wtf I was only born in 1988 I didn't do any of those things, I refuse to feel ashamed for actions I or my family never did. I refuse to feel ashamed because I was born white.


I am white and no one has ever told me I should be ashamed of that. Where are all these people telling white people to be ashamed? I have never encountered one.


Cnn, nbc, cbs, Washington post, Newyork times,

I like Morgan freeman. Why have a black history month. Black history is human history.


I guess I missed all those news articles and stories, because I don't remember ever reading "White People: Be ashamed for being white" in the New York Times.


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Rollo
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15 Feb 2016, 5:38 pm

beneficii wrote:
Why would being white be something that you are proud of?


Pride in this context means simply respecting how "God" (or Nature) made you.

With regards to race, you wouldn't understand. I'd stick to LGBTQWERTY issues if I were you.



sly279
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15 Feb 2016, 5:39 pm

beneficii wrote:
sly279 wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Why would being white be something that you are proud of?

Why is being black something to be proud of?


I think some would say that it's because said person succeeded in life, overcoming the disadvantages in this country of being black. That would be something to be proud of.

That would be being proud of themselves. Their race had nothing to do with them overcoming anything.

Many whites are just as disadvantaged as blacks. Lots of blacks are way more well off then many whites.

There's nothing more to be proud of being black then being white.



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15 Feb 2016, 5:42 pm

wilburforce wrote:
Rollo wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Rollo wrote:

The whole point of buzzwords like racist and white supremacist is to attack white identity, in other words to attack white people. You are trying to answer a dishonest racial attack with 'logic' and coming up with something rather confused. Instead of trying to prove you are not this or that buzzword, the thing to do is to tell your attacker something along the lines of "I don't care what you say I am, because I say you're a piece of s***".


Pretty sure white supremacist is a term to describe people who believe in white supremacy and racist is a term to describe a person who thinks their race is superior to another one or others...going around accusing people of either just for being white would be problematic though. But there are actual white supremacists and racists, so not sure how those words themselves would be an attack on white identity. Though I'd be curious to know what that even means since not all white people share the same culture and in fact have had different ones.


The fact that you reject white identity and claim not to even understand what it means is just evidence that the buzzword racist has had its intended affect on you, even if its never been hurled at you personally in your life. You virtually make my point for me. And "white supemacists are people who believe in white supremacy" is just a tautology. You might as well say "flibbertigibbets are flibbertigibbets". George Orwell was right - control the language and you control the thoughts of the masses.


Why hate on the term "racist" though if it actually accurately describes your behaviour and thoughts? If you actually think negative things about other people based on what race they belong to and stereotypes and misinformation about people of that race, and you have biases against people of other races then you are a racist by definition. How is this "controlling language" if it accurately describes reality?


wilburforce, I don't care what you call me, because based on what I have observed of you in this forum I consider your opinion utterly worthless.

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15 Feb 2016, 5:47 pm

beneficii wrote:
sly279 wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Why would being white be something that you are proud of?

Why is being black something to be proud of?


I think some would say that it's because said person succeeded in life, overcoming the disadvantages in this country of being black. That would be something to be proud of.


Wouldn't it then make more sense to be proud they accomplished all that, rather than specifically that they are black, since its not the color of their skin that allowed them to do that. Also what about black people outside the United States who haven't lived those particular disadvantages and thus wouldn't really relate to that.


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15 Feb 2016, 5:57 pm

Rollo wrote:
Rollo wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:

The whole point of buzzwords like racist and white supremacist is to attack white identity, in other words to attack white people. You are trying to answer a dishonest racial attack with 'logic' and coming up with something rather confused. Instead of trying to prove you are not this or that buzzword, the thing to do is to tell your attacker something along the lines of "I don't care what you say I am, because I say you're a piece of s***".


Pretty sure white supremacist is a term to describe people who believe in white supremacy and racist is a term to describe a person who thinks their race is superior to another one or others...going around accusing people of either just for being white would be problematic though. But there are actual white supremacists and racists, so not sure how those words themselves would be an attack on white identity. Though I'd be curious to know what that even means since not all white people share the same culture and in fact have had different ones.


The fact that you reject white identity and claim not to even understand what it means is just evidence that the buzzword racist has had its intended affect on you, even if its never been hurled at you personally in your life. You virtually make my point for me. And "white supemacists are people who believe in white supremacy" is just a tautology. You might as well say "flibbertigibbets are flibbertigibbets". George Orwell was right - control the language and you control the thoughts of the masses.



The fact that I reject white identity?.....where did you get that, I have mostly white ethnicity of course I identify with it. I am also part native American so there is that identity to there are things from both 'heritages' that I like and appreciate. But to me its unusual to be proud of things I haven't accomplished or chosen so I am not proud of being white or native American.

'It rejects white identity if you are aware of racists and white supremacists existing' how laughable.

Also what do you suggest we call it when someone thinks their race is superior to other races if not racism? Or are you claiming that no one believes in racial superiority over other races?

And yes generally referring to things as what they are is how the human language works, hence white supremacists will be called white supremacists and racists will be called racists....also people will hurl both of those words at people who aren't racists or white supremacists inappropriately as well. Doesn't mean neither of those things exist and the words to describe them are just cannon fodder to attack white people with.


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15 Feb 2016, 6:01 pm

Order a DNA test and most of these supremacists will find their blood is not as "pure" as they think.



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15 Feb 2016, 6:04 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
Order a DNA test and most of these supremacists will find their blood is not as "pure" as they think.


Indeed, hell there might be some who even know they have something other than 'white' in their background and be ashamed.


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15 Feb 2016, 6:20 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
Order a DNA test and most of these supremacists will find their blood is not as "pure" as they think.


A virtually meaningless and unverifiable statement. Did the TeeVee teach you to say things like that? And as if any racially conscious white person needs to justify their identity to an anti-white like you anyway, with your brainless parroting of loaded terms like 'supremacist'.

Anyway, in one of the other thread GGPViper was trying to tell me whites were too inbred. It seems anti-whites can't make their minds up. Any old anti-white sounding crap will do, right?



Last edited by Rollo on 15 Feb 2016, 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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15 Feb 2016, 6:24 pm

Rollo wrote:
wilburforce wrote:
Rollo wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Rollo wrote:

The whole point of buzzwords like racist and white supremacist is to attack white identity, in other words to attack white people. You are trying to answer a dishonest racial attack with 'logic' and coming up with something rather confused. Instead of trying to prove you are not this or that buzzword, the thing to do is to tell your attacker something along the lines of "I don't care what you say I am, because I say you're a piece of s***".


Pretty sure white supremacist is a term to describe people who believe in white supremacy and racist is a term to describe a person who thinks their race is superior to another one or others...going around accusing people of either just for being white would be problematic though. But there are actual white supremacists and racists, so not sure how those words themselves would be an attack on white identity. Though I'd be curious to know what that even means since not all white people share the same culture and in fact have had different ones.


The fact that you reject white identity and claim not to even understand what it means is just evidence that the buzzword racist has had its intended affect on you, even if its never been hurled at you personally in your life. You virtually make my point for me. And "white supemacists are people who believe in white supremacy" is just a tautology. You might as well say "flibbertigibbets are flibbertigibbets". George Orwell was right - control the language and you control the thoughts of the masses.


Why hate on the term "racist" though if it actually accurately describes your behaviour and thoughts? If you actually think negative things about other people based on what race they belong to and stereotypes and misinformation about people of that race, and you have biases against people of other races then you are a racist by definition. How is this "controlling language" if it accurately describes reality?


wilburforce, I don't care what you call me, because based on what I have observed of you in this forum I consider your opinion utterly worthless.

AspieOtaku, take note.


I wasn't calling you anything, I was using the common "you". If you don't think you are better than other people of different races because you are white and don't have biases against people of other races, then you are not racist and this comment doesn't apply to you. The word "racist" applies to people who hold racist beliefs and behave in a biased way against other races.

:cry: I will try not to be devastated that you consider my opinion utterly worthless, but it will be really difficult. It may keep me up nights for a while, until I am able to come to terms with it. Maybe with intense therapy I will be able to accept your disapproval and move on. One can only hope!


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15 Feb 2016, 6:26 pm

sly279 wrote:
Hopper wrote:
sly279 wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
Why be proud of something that isn't an accomplishment?

Would you apply this toward black pride,gay pride, Asian pride, Mexican pride Etc

Or is it only white people who can't have pride?


The history and concept of 'pride' can be complicated, but at base it's a stand against being told you should be ashamed of what you are, that you are lesser, that you should know your place.

There is simply no equivalent history of a campaign against white people qua white people as there is black people or gay people. Lip service paid to historical atrocities (and, to a lesser extent, ongoing issues) aside, the social assumption is that of course you're proud of being white.

For that reason, I see no need to be proud of being white, though one need not feel ashamed of it either. Better to do things and be of a character that inspires pride, rather than seek it in an ethnicity.


Wtf, white people are told all the time to be ashamed of being white
You killed millions, you enslaved blacks. You conquered the world, you're responsible for the holocaust. Wtf I was only born in 1988 I didn't do any of those things, I refuse to feel ashamed for actions I or my family never did. I refuse to feel ashamed because I was born white.


White people are told this because this stuff was done in the name of whiteness. Hell, because bad stuff is still done in the name of whiteness. That is not the same as being of an identity to which the victims of those actions belong.

Personally, I don't see any point in being ashamed for being 'white', except insofar as one looks at racial and ethnic matters and thinks 'yep, there's still work to be done there'. But thinking 'white pride' is at all equivalent to 'black pride' is tooth-pullingly stoopid.


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15 Feb 2016, 11:05 pm

Well, I'm proud of my Pennsylvania Dutch heritage, and I'm totally rocking my naturally blonde hair and blue eyes, but whiteness is a bastard construction invented in the 17th century to replace religion as an excuse to subjugate the rest of the world, starting with the aftermath of Bacon's Rebellion. I don't know why I'd be proud of that.


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15 Feb 2016, 11:07 pm

beneficii wrote:
Well, I'm proud of my Pennsylvania Dutch heritage, and I'm totally rocking my naturally blonde hair and blue eyes, but whiteness is a bastard construction invented in the 17th century to replace religion as an excuse to subjugate the rest of the world, starting with the aftermath of Bacon's Rebellion. I don't know why I'd be proud of that.


Exactly



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15 Feb 2016, 11:08 pm

sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
Why be proud of something that isn't an accomplishment?

Would you apply this toward black pride,gay pride, Asian pride, Mexican pride Etc

Or is it only white people who can't have pride?


Where was such a thing about excluding non-whites from having pride in their backgrounds ever said in this thread?


It wasn't, I think someone was reading into things a little too deeply.


Obviously.


Why do you hate white people so much. Leftish guilt over slavely from hundred years ago?
I feel no guilt for actions taken hundred years ago more for any action taken five minutes ago as I didn't do it. I only feel guilty for bad stuf I do. Not for stuff others do.

White pride white pride
The fact black pride is ok, whit pride isn't, the fact that threads have to be started asking why it's not ok to have white pride, so there is something wrong . That people feel wronged and attacked, you can ignore it all you want and support your party blindly I won't.

Either all pride is ok or no pride is ok. You want equality and fairness that's equality and fairness. Saying one race can feel pride but another cant isn't equal or fair.


White pride has unfortunately been used for promoting white supremacy, and turning the clock back on civil rights. But I have never, ever said that we whites should be ashamed of what whites had done in the past, because we can't be held responsible for it. And if you read my posts more closely, you'd find I have a great deal of pride in my German ancestry.


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