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slenkar
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06 Mar 2016, 1:24 pm

All you have to do is examine the fruits of these channelled pieces of art,
Rock was openly satanic in the eighties and nihilistic in the 90's

This is a recent song:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQYaoiIFh8

And it contains the same themes that Robert Johnson sang about in the 1930's



Dinosaw
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06 Mar 2016, 1:26 pm

OP. I have a question.

It's a straight forward question and I expect a "yes" or "no" answer. I do not require elaboration.

Here is the question:

ARE YOU PRESENTLY, OR HAVE YOU BEEN RECENTLY, DOING "DRUGS"/PSYCHEDELICS/"ENTHEOGENS"?

Please answer honestly.


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Dinosaw
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06 Mar 2016, 1:36 pm

slenkar wrote:
All you have to do is examine the fruits of these channelled pieces of art,
Rock was openly satanic in the eighties...


You kind of rambled there but...I'll comment anyway.

"Rock" music, for some musicians, was a vehicle for openly Gnostic spiritualism. One very obvious example was David Bowie. Listen to "Station to Station" (or read the lyrics) and you will find the line "one magical movement from Kether to Malkuth" - a clear mention of the Kabbalah's "Tree of Life" - where one will find those two points. His mystical references didn't stop there with much mention of other "magic"/occult concepts, Crowley, The Ordo Templi Orientis, etc., occurring often in Bowie's lyrics.

It's amazing that people have declared Bowie a "Rock God". Given that it there is very strong evidence to claim that Bowie had sexual relations with girls as young as 13 or 14, I'm kind of confused as to how he's any better than a pedophilic priest. But hey, that's just me. If people like their gods to be child molesters, they can "rock on".


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Last edited by Dinosaw on 06 Mar 2016, 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NoahYates
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06 Mar 2016, 1:38 pm

No I do not. It is a very fascinating topic though. I have read a great deal about people's accounts of them in the erowid vault and eslewhere. Specifically, Alan Watts ' The Joyous Cosmology is one of my favorite books, because the experience he describes and word he uses resemble my own thought process. And I am a huge fan of Terence Mckenna, whose entire audio archive I used to listen to every summer. His way of articulating his ideas, along with Alan Watts inspire me. I have always been fascinated with psychology, philosophy, God, and intelligence... and between the two of them I find a profound quality of understanding on these topics. If I could have a conversation occur between three people from history it would be Alan Watts, Terence Mckenna, and William Lane Craig. I think it would be a fascinating discussion. perhaps in the vein of Ravi Zacharias I should write book about that convo. :heart:


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MDD123
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06 Mar 2016, 1:47 pm

Dinosaw wrote:
OP. I have a question.

It's a straight forward question and I expect a "yes" or "no" answer. I do not require elaboration.

Here is the question:

ARE YOU PRESENTLY, OR HAVE YOU BEEN RECENTLY, DOING "DRUGS"/PSYCHEDELICS/"ENTHEOGENS"?

Please answer honestly.


You're kind of a dick for asking.


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Dinosaw
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06 Mar 2016, 2:00 pm

MDD123 wrote:
Dinosaw wrote:
OP. I have a question.

It's a straight forward question and I expect a "yes" or "no" answer. I do not require elaboration.

Here is the question:

ARE YOU PRESENTLY, OR HAVE YOU BEEN RECENTLY, DOING "DRUGS"/PSYCHEDELICS/"ENTHEOGENS"?

Please answer honestly.


You're kind of a dick for asking.


Really, how so?

I just asked for a "yes" or "no", in order that I might understand the OP's perspective better. No judgment was intended. No criticism was offered. How is that being "a dick"?

In case you were unaware:

The effort to apprehend the spiritual is often accompanied by, and considered enabled through, such things as the use of "drugs".

It is therefore truly a fair question. Sorry you can't see that. Sorry you need to resort to a personal attack in your assessment of my question.

Would you have resorted to criticism if I asked the OP if he meditated? Or prayed?

Have a nice day.


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NoahYates
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06 Mar 2016, 2:07 pm

NoahYates wrote:
If I could have a conversation occur between three people from history it would be Alan Watts, Terence Mckenna, and William Lane Craig. I think it would be a fascinating discussion. perhaps in the vein of Ravi Zacharias I should write book about that convo. :heart:


Dr Craig is the Theist, Alan the Panentheist, and Terence the Skeptic


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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts


Dinosaw
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06 Mar 2016, 2:15 pm

OP, I commend you for your open discussion of this topic.

My apologies if you were also offended by my simple inquiry.

As stated, the question was fair in light of the subject matter and what is well known about many individuals that investigate such things.

Forgive me if I offended anyone else as well.

It's a shame that it's becoming so hard to inquire, with the intent to attain a better understanding, without offending someone. Even when such inquiry is merely a request for simply a "yes" or a "no" and not an explanation?


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slenkar
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06 Mar 2016, 2:22 pm

I don't know many Gnostic musicians but I could name 20-30 satanic bands probably.



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06 Mar 2016, 2:41 pm

No offense taken.. :) I think that is a natural question to ask... I think some people might get offended because of how illegal and taboo it is in most cultures. So it becomes difficult to talk about. Really sucks... because I do feel like this is an untapped area that science, religion, art and culture in general could glean a lot from. As I say, I want to connect the dots.. and that means bringing all viewpoints from all sources of knowledge and disciplines together... analyzing our experience systematically and comprehensively... and thinking outside the box. What I am gathering that I am being blown away by is that it seems as though I am naturally in a state of expanded awareness just like is describe by people who take entheogens... only to a milder degree. As I have discussed in other threads, I had no idea that the reason for my extreme social anxiety disorder, aberrant ways of thinking, problems in interpersonal relationships, problems in relationships, above average IQ and vocabulary, tendency toward the mystical, excellent memory, etc.. were due to that fact that the actual quality of my thought is vastly different from most people. Without going into my entire life story... I thought the underlying cause for my problems were something on the schizophrenia spectrum. However, I had never been exposed to the autism spectrum disorders, or specifically Asperger's syndrome... After I began reading it was instant that I saw myself in the accounts of these people on the forums (this one included)... the epiphany of finding out who I was is the closest thing to a trip I could imagine. My entire brain set afire with connections, retracing my whole life with this sterling thread of self knowledge. That occurred on Feb 24. Since then i have been stimulated so much.. reviving all of my old passions (writing, learning, gardening, and creating art) instead of wasting away playing video games as I have been for about 4 years since dropping out of the philosophy department at the University of Kentucky. I am already considering going back to finish my undergraduate work and possibly more with this new self-awareness.


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Dinosaw
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06 Mar 2016, 2:42 pm

MDD123 wrote:
Dinosaw wrote:
OP. I have a question.

It's a straight forward question and I expect a "yes" or "no" answer. I do not require elaboration.

Here is the question:

ARE YOU PRESENTLY, OR HAVE YOU BEEN RECENTLY, DOING "DRUGS"/PSYCHEDELICS/"ENTHEOGENS"?

Please answer honestly.


You're kind of a dick for asking.


BTW.

Are you even remotely familiar with any of the names that the OP has mentioned - Alan Watts, Terence McKenna, Robert Sapolsky, et al.?

Are you aware that they all have opinions/theories regarding drug/psychedelic/entheogen use in the pursuit of "the spiritual"?

Please, think before insulting. I can see where my particular framing was tedious and possibly...whatever...but really...considering the topic and the names mentioned...you're calling me a dick for asking if the OP was familiar with drug use in relationship to the topic?


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Dinosaw
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06 Mar 2016, 2:50 pm

NoahYates wrote:
No offense taken.


Thank you for that.
---------------------

I wish you the best in your quest, whether it take you East or West.

Go with God or science my friend, both might lead to the same in the end.


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Dinosaw
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06 Mar 2016, 2:54 pm

NoahYates wrote:
“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts.


That's awesome. Watts was such a poet.


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NoahYates
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06 Mar 2016, 2:56 pm

For anyone who likes Terence and wants to hear his message spread, give me some feedback on an essay I wrote in which I tried to distill some of the themes of his lectures into a kind of prose-like speech.
viewtopic.php?t=307538


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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts


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06 Mar 2016, 4:16 pm

Dinosaw wrote:
MDD123 wrote:
You're kind of a dick for asking.


Please, think before insulting. I can see where my particular framing was tedious and possibly...whatever...but really...considering the topic and the names mentioned...you're calling me a dick for asking if the OP was familiar with drug use in relationship to the topic?


I'm sorry, that was rude of me. People usually mean ill when they ask me those sorts of questions.


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06 Mar 2016, 6:28 pm

Dinosaw wrote:
MDD123 wrote:
Dinosaw wrote:
OP. I have a question.

It's a straight forward question and I expect a "yes" or "no" answer. I do not require elaboration.

Here is the question:

ARE YOU PRESENTLY, OR HAVE YOU BEEN RECENTLY, DOING "DRUGS"/PSYCHEDELICS/"ENTHEOGENS"?

Please answer honestly.


You're kind of a dick for asking.


BTW.

Are you even remotely familiar with any of the names that the OP has mentioned - Alan Watts, Terence McKenna, Robert Sapolsky, et al.?

Are you aware that they all have opinions/theories regarding drug/psychedelic/entheogen use in the pursuit of "the spiritual"?

Please, think before insulting. I can see where my particular framing was tedious and possibly...whatever...but really...considering the topic and the names mentioned...you're calling me a dick for asking if the OP was familiar with drug use in relationship to the topic?


The question seems like baiting which is against the rules. From the person it intended to provoke, it drew a name-calling response, which is also against the rules.

Let's not have that kind of off-rule stuff, even in PPR.. Peace.
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