Electors are wavering in their support for Donald Trump

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Jacoby
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12 Nov 2016, 8:40 am

The establishment rejected Trump because he was an outsider and the voters accepted him because of it, the changing of the tune comes from people who genuinely respect the office of the presidency and are coming with the terms with the mandate that Trump has been given. Trump has shown a willingness to listen and work with other people, waging a permanent campaign against him serves no purpose and it's a campaign they will lose. I think a lot of people are working their ways thru the stages of Trump grief, some have made it to acceptance while others are still stuck in an earlier stage.

The way to keep Trump balanced is to work with him and hopefully congressional Democrats understand this, take your seat at the table and make your case and Trump will listen unlike someone like Ted Cruz. Hillary was such a flawed candidate that I honestly don't know if she would beaten Cruz so we really dodged a bullet.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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12 Nov 2016, 8:51 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Ana,

If they did this, if the electoral college subverted the outcome of the vote, it would set a precedent for it happening again much more easily. Right now you might think it's justified (although who would they vote for instead....Hillary!?) but once it's happened successfully one time it would be yet another pattern of our sovereignty getting overthrown because they'd be able to do this with pretty much any popularly elected president elect who the globalists or whoever has the money in Washington doesn't want to see in power.

If you're really worried about Trump, if anyone really is, take Sam Harris's advice and speak as much as you can at making sure he's wrapped in competent advisers and people who will keep our country safe from his inexperience and personal oddities. Also no one had the will to limit executive power under Bush, no one had the will to do it under Obama; do you think we might have the will to get it done now?

See, the thing is, it's the Electoral College that's subverting the vote right now, friend! The majority did not vote for Donald Trump! I heard House Speaker Ryan talking like Trump won by a landslide and that is far from the truth!
What I would suggest to Republicans is quit obsessing on stuff like school choice, immigration and stopping protests. Instead focus solely on the economy. A tiny splinter of Muslims are terrorists, friend, but if Republicans keep treating all Muslims like they are, you are just pushing them away from Democratic ideals by believing falsehoods about them.
A lot of countries around the world are seeing, right now, the devastating effects of climate change. They are concerned and rightly so. Do we want to brush aside their worries while their countries get swallowed by the sea. You don't want refugees? Well you will see plenty once these countries start disappearing. Their homes will vanish.
These are realities Republicans want to ignore. In a democracy, we don't ignore stuff, do we? Our job is to discuss everything, forever striving to form a more perfect union. Do not flee and never let a bully silence you!
The person who designed the Statue of Liberty must have been gnostic because her light, the divine spark of Sophia, our wisdom, allows us to see and find the path to freedom.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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12 Nov 2016, 9:02 am

Jacoby wrote:
The establishment rejected Trump because he was an outsider and the voters accepted him because of it, the changing of the tune comes from people who genuinely respect the office of the presidency and are coming with the terms with the mandate that Trump has been given. Trump has shown a willingness to listen and work with other people, waging a permanent campaign against him serves no purpose and it's a campaign they will lose. I think a lot of people are working their ways thru the stages of Trump grief, some have made it to acceptance while others are still stuck in an earlier stage.

The way to keep Trump balanced is to work with him and hopefully congressional Democrats understand this, take your seat at the table and make your case and Trump will listen unlike someone like Ted Cruz. Hillary was such a flawed candidate that I honestly don't know if she would beaten Cruz so we really dodged a bullet.

Jacoby, I heard Ryan and Cruz denounce Trump over bigotry early on. It wasn't only because Trump is an outsider but money talks and now look. I believe there's a lot of corruption going on. At least Ryan knows about the constitution which leads me to believe he'd be a better choice than Trump. What has Trump uttered that isn't autocratic? Our constitution is designed to keep this from happening.



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12 Nov 2016, 9:12 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
See, the thing is, it's the Electoral College that's subverting the vote right now, friend! The majority did not vote for Donald Trump!


You're not really understanding my argument. The system of state electors that counted Trump as the victor by state elector count goes back to 1787. Do we want to make it arbitrary or, if you want simple majority, do you think we should have a constitutional convention to get rid of that? You're suggesting radical incision in a system over 200 years old for the sake of an immediate convenience. Do you want that breach in place next time around if the script flips and we have a howling lunatic with majority vote and a sane candidate who won through the electoral college?


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Jacoby
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12 Nov 2016, 9:19 am

Money talks? What do you mean? Trump spent less than half of what Hillary spent and that's not even counting the fat that he had the full brunt of the corporate media universally against him.

Paul Ryan and Ted Cruz are both snakes in the grass who dream of being president themselves, do you honestly believe that Cruz really cared that much about Trump mentioning some silly National Enquirer story? Both of them were hoping to run in 2020. They'll just as soon try to buddy up to Trump as stick a knife in his back, they are not to be trusted. How well somebody knows the constitution is pretty irrelevant as evidence by the 'constitutional scholar' that currently occupies the White House, it seems he only studied the constitution to find ways around it. Trump is bound by the constitution as any president would be, the protections in the constitution guard against autocratic rulers so I am not particularly worried. We have a very strong executive presidency, it was set in place by Bush and Obama so blame them if you now fear the encroachment of executive power as they have already created that system. Perhaps people should of heeded the warnings about pushing the boundaries on things you wouldn't want to deal with if the show was on the other foot and now it is. Establishment Republicans and Democrats made their own bed.



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12 Nov 2016, 9:35 am

sly279 wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
You guys don't like it because you are OK with Trump but this is for the ones who are not and whom there are many. They have the right to write to Electors, voicing their concerns and urging them to carefully consider what kind of character Trump has. People have rights in this country. It's America. We are a culture of openness where freedom of expression is allowed.

Now please. Let the ones who oppose him have their say.

Ok I'll write your electors and tell them to vote trump despit your states results.
How does that make you feel ? Why could you or anyone else have a right to meddle in other states votes?

Also from what I understand the electors are suppose to be anonymous and identies kept secret to prevent them being threaten or bribed to vote against their stat population decision.

Sly, my electors already belong to Trump. Not sure if any are faithless here due to overwhelming Trump populous majority but this is clearly not the case in Pennsylvania, Florida or New Hampshire. If you live in swing states that went Republican by a sliver majority and don't feel right, then write your electors without hesitation. You could make a difference!

Tech Step and Jacoby, I am standing up for democracy. The Electoral College is designed to keep the unqualified or unfit from becoming President. I have no beef with Ryan or Cruz. Ryan at least knows the constitution. He Is qualified for the job even though I don't see eye to eye on everything I know Ryan is at least qualified. Trump is not qualified. He has no experience. He hasn't indicated he knows anything or even cares for the constitution. He has pandered to bigots throughout his campaign so that he looks like one and he has a history of bigotry in his family. People have a right to get involved and demand electors think twice about his qualification to be President.

This election has exposed corruption at its highest on both sides. I would be happy if we could oust Trump and Clintons and start with educated, experienced constitutional scholars.



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12 Nov 2016, 10:58 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Sly, that article I posted says electors would choose another Republican instead of Trump.


That's what the primaries were for, and Trump destroyed them all. Get over it and move on.


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12 Nov 2016, 10:59 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
What's really weird about this is the Republican establishment rejected Trump at first partly because of his bigotry, now he can do no wrong. Why suddenly the change? What will stimulate the economy more than anything he does is people spending money but hey guys you can spend money anytime. Trump doesn't have to be President to do that. Spending always helps economies. You all will spend the money while Trump takes all the credit but please don't go into massive credit debt just because you are excited about him or it will be 2007 all over again.


Hahaha, they didn't reject him because of bigotry, they rejected him because he's spoken against the war machine and its direction.


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12 Nov 2016, 11:00 am

Bigotry? Cruz talked of carpet bombing Syria.


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12 Nov 2016, 11:13 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

Tech Step and Jacoby, I am standing up for democracy. The Electoral College is designed to keep the unqualified or unfit from becoming President. I have no beef with Ryan or Cruz. Ryan at least knows the constitution. He Is qualified for the job even though I don't see eye to eye on everything I know Ryan is at least qualified. Trump is not qualified. He has no experience. He hasn't indicated he knows anything or even cares for the constitution. He has pandered to bigots throughout his campaign so that he looks like one and he has a history of bigotry in his family. People have a right to get involved and demand electors think twice about his qualification to be President.

This election has exposed corruption at its highest on both sides. I would be happy if we could oust Trump and Clintons and start with educated, experienced constitutional scholars.

And who is fit and qualified for the job? Only people that kowtow to the globalist world order?

Trump is Ivy League educated, he runs a multi-billion dollar company, he's not qualified but a lawyer or career politician is? I can't agree with that. The presidency is a job you can't prepare for, it's a learn on the job type thing for everybody.

I personally think someone under criminal investigation by the FBI for corruption is unfit for public office



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12 Nov 2016, 11:29 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Tech Step and Jacoby, I am standing up for democracy.


You're standing up for a 'democracy of current convenience'. There's no such thing.


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12 Nov 2016, 11:31 am

JohnPowell wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
What's really weird about this is the Republican establishment rejected Trump at first partly because of his bigotry, now he can do no wrong. Why suddenly the change? What will stimulate the economy more than anything he does is people spending money but hey guys you can spend money anytime. Trump doesn't have to be President to do that. Spending always helps economies. You all will spend the money while Trump takes all the credit but please don't go into massive credit debt just because you are excited about him or it will be 2007 all over again.


Hahaha, they didn't reject him because of bigotry, they rejected him because he's spoken against the war machine and its direction.


If he does implement policy in the direction against war, against imperialism, then that would be a definite silver lining in a Trump presidency. This is an area Hillary was absolutely horrible in.

Still doesn't erase all the misogynistic and racist crap he's said and done and has yet to allow himself to be held accountable for. When I've been out and about here in Sacramento over the past few days, I've come across a lot of people of color who were really concerned about this.


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Jacoby
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12 Nov 2016, 11:44 am

beneficii wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
What's really weird about this is the Republican establishment rejected Trump at first partly because of his bigotry, now he can do no wrong. Why suddenly the change? What will stimulate the economy more than anything he does is people spending money but hey guys you can spend money anytime. Trump doesn't have to be President to do that. Spending always helps economies. You all will spend the money while Trump takes all the credit but please don't go into massive credit debt just because you are excited about him or it will be 2007 all over again.


Hahaha, they didn't reject him because of bigotry, they rejected him because he's spoken against the war machine and its direction.


If he does implement policy in the direction against war, against imperialism, then that would be a definite silver lining in a Trump presidency.

Still doesn't erase all the misogynistic and racist crap he's said and done and has yet to allow himself to be held accountable for. When I've been out and about here in Sacramento over the past few days, I've come across a lot of people of color who were really concerned about this.


And what should be the punishment for these alleged speech crimes? Have you ever heard the saying 'sticks and stones'? What do you want from him?

Also I was right all along about Hillary, neener neener neener! Hopefully people start respecting my analysis, I was right and everyone else was wrong. :P

I think people will come to realize eventually that they were wrong about Trump once they swallow their pride, I think we should all hope that he is great president. He has won and he will be all our president now, not just my chosen candidate. I think people are already coming around, they've built up such a boogeyman around Trump that is beyond easy for him to impress. Even Van Jones has changed his tune...



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12 Nov 2016, 12:04 pm

It's a felony in many of the states for trump to influence/bribe/intimidates a elector to vote one way or not vote at all. People signing these petitions are treading on legal waters and could face felony charges after trumps in office.
Other states it's a misdemeanor.



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12 Nov 2016, 12:08 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
See, the thing is, it's the Electoral College that's subverting the vote right now, friend! The majority did not vote for Donald Trump!


You're not really understanding my argument. The system of state electors that counted Trump as the victor by state elector count goes back to 1787. Do we want to make it arbitrary or, if you want simple majority, do you think we should have a constitutional convention to get rid of that? You're suggesting radical incision in a system over 200 years old for the sake of an immediate convenience. Do you want that breach in place next time around if the script flips and we have a howling lunatic with majority vote and a sane candidate who won through the electoral college?

She wants them to override their states popular vote(is who the people in that state wanted) in favors of California and New York's popular votes.

She doesn't give a bit about people's votes



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12 Nov 2016, 12:14 pm

sly279 wrote:
It's a felony in many of the states for trump to influence/bribe/intimidates a elector to vote one way or not vote at all. People signing these petitions are treading on legal waters and could face felony charges after trumps in office.
Other states it's a misdemeanor.


I'm somewhat doubtful ordinary citizens who write a letter that is not threatening to their electors would face criminal charges for it, but you might be right. Do you have a citation?


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