"It's not a Muslim ban! It's working out very nicely!"

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Sure, it was hard to distinguish between factions in that part of the world. There, there might not be any white hats; not Asaad, not the Muslim Brotherhood, maybe not anybody. It's an American misperception of reality to assume every struggle has a good and an evil side. Hitler and Stalin were blood enemies, and neither represented good by any degree.

Directed at no one in particular, but I feel it needs to be said anyway:

Yes, it's a Muslim ban. It specifically affects countries that have a Muslim majority, and only affects Muslim citizens of those countries. The executive order specifically states that it will allow non-Muslim immigrants from those countries.

So, you want to know what I think of the executive order?

I was born in Baghdad, Iraq; raised in Baghdad, lived in Mahaweel for a few years; then I came to the United States in 2003, fleeing the warfare, violence, and utter mayhem that swallowed my country. Imagine if Donald Trump had been president back then? I'd be dead right now, most likely. Either that, or I would have pretended to be Christian (since the executive order only blocks Muslim immigrants while allowing minority groups such as Christian or Yezidi).

How do you expect me to feel about this Muslim ban? I feel like it's an inhuman act of cowardice to stop refugees from seeking refuge. Donald Trump denies giving a safe refuge to Shi'a Muslims, who even as we speak, are being mass-murdered, killed, taken as slaves and raped by ISIS. That could have been me. Are you okay with that? Then please tell your conservative buddies to stop saying "all lives matter", you have lost the right to say those words.

It's most interesting that Trump was supposed to help the many "forgotten Americans" find work and build America's manufacturing (especially given the US is going to lose imports from Asia and Mexico due to Trump's foreign policy efforts)
and strengthen the economy...I thought this was why Trump supporters "claim" they voted for him? get jobs

So why was his first priority after his inauguration to i) chuck the TPP and kick American trading partners in the Asia/Pacific in the guts ii) threaten China iii) build a wall on the border with Mexico to keep Mexicans out iv) ban muslims

His priorities seem to be pandering to the fantasies his alt-right buddies like Bannon and Spencer?

That's my guess about Bannon and Spencer.

Well said!!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ?CMP=fb_gu

At least we still have highly competent foreign leadership in the world, who can explain the Geneva Conventions to our President Trump.

imho, such agreements are a major part of why America, and many nations and individuals across the world, have been and are Great.

If X is a subset of U, then the following two statements are equivalent:
We are banning X
We are banning the intersection of U and X

It's a Muslim Ban with an alternative name that only applies to specific countries.

Edit: The actual argument I heard went more like this, if I can abuse set notation slightly:

We're banning people from specific muslim majority countries and making an exception for religious minorities but that is not the same as banning muslims from those countries.
U minus (U minus the intersection of U and X) does not equal X is their assertion.
U/(U/(U int X))=X, and that's a fact.

Last edited by jrjones9933 on 30 Jan 2017, 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

FWIW I do like your contributions and apologize for any offense taken, I definitely respect your unique personal perspective over the lecturing of bleeding heart liberals. I recognize Shia Muslims as an oppressed minority in the middle east like Christians and Yazidis and don't think Iran should be on the list. Oppressed by radical Sunni Muslims, I feel like it wouldn't be too hard to differentiate if just a little bit of knowledge about the faith was but remember this travel ban is temporary and in place of them creating a new vetting process so that might be exactly what they are doing.

If Trump was president in 2003 then the US would of never invaded Iraq and I imagine Iraq would still be ruled by Saddam Hussein. Far fewer people would of died I am sure, I am not sure what the country would of looked like but of course US involvement in Iraq went back a couple decades before the invasion. If I were in charge I wouldn't of given Saddam chemical weapons/other armaments or the green light to invade Kuwait as the US did. I wish we stayed the hell out of there and instead of destabilizing the whole region but unfortunately the past cannot be undone.

Trump has been talking to Arab heads of state over the last couple of days who are concerned about the matter and has gotten them to agree to his 'safe zones' idea, Trump staking out a relatively extreme position gives him leverage to negotiate and is motivation for the other side to seek a deal. How do you convince these rich Arab countries to take more refugees? One way may be by declaring you will take none and negotiate from there.

I do not agree with the saber rattling towards Iran, I wish some negotiated peace could be had but the Arabs + Israelis want nothing short of war and destruction of the theocratic Shiite state. I hope that with better relations with Russia could mean better relations with Iran but Iran has it's own priorities in the middle east. The sectarian division between Shia and Sunni are not something the US can solve and is not something the US should pick sides in.

Did I miss the part where Merkel says she'll take in all the refugees instead? That she has a special program set up for all of them? Has food, housing, healthcare and all that for all the refugees to have a haven in Germany right?

After what Merkel has done to her country, she really has no credibility at all to speak on such matters.

Last night, an administration source speaking on condition of anonymity called the Executive Order on Immigration a huge success.

Thank you for signaling which leaks are authorized.

This is why they call him Trump. He's talking out of his bum.

Germany has been taking an inordinate degree of refugees, already.

I don't understand everything here, is this about Trump banning countries?

You think? after 9-11 Trump would have sent the troops for whatever reason

As it is he is planning to wipe out ISIS! look out Syrian civilians