How do Religious people have faith despite the Bible?

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nurseangela
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24 Feb 2017, 11:26 am

Uncle wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
EzraS wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Primarily because they don't take the Bible literally.

They realize that the content might have been "inspired" by God, but that the "revelations" contained within it came from multiple sources--all of whom have their own "take" on God.

And they remember that the Bible was written between about 700 BC and 100 AD. And that at least of the substance was applicable to that time, but not to ours.


This is a good explanation. I really don't take the Old Testament literally - most of the stories are just not true to life for me (especially since I'm a realist).


So how is a person supposed to separate the real from the fake if that's the case?


Like the story of Sampson - I read over it because I really do not like reading the Old Testament. Sampson ended up losing his strength because his hair was cut? Sounds like a mental disorder to me. :mrgreen:



Found that interesting as something just hit me when reading your response...

As mentioned it is understood that when Samsons hair was cut he lost his strength... I think many fail to see the other side of this explanation. For example he was a Nazirite and Nazirites didnt cut their hair! So why would this be the case? What is so significant about a group of individuals not cutting their hair? As many cultures believe and still do that their hair also holds their Mana/spirit as do still native American Indians. There are times when to shame them for a deed that was not welcomed by the community their hair would be cut. This in turn would Psychologically weaken them through shame. So when we look at the bible and see that Samsons strength could be lost if his hair was cut. Would it not be more a logical approach that cutting his hair didnt physically make him weaker but psychologically made him weaker? Thus giving him the false impression he lost his strength?

I argue this because for an example the Hypnotist Derren Brown managed to convince someone to take a blue pill that would cure the individual from vertigo. Over a short period of time after taking a number of pills he was able to stand atop of a bridge and look down without issue only to be then told the pill was a placebo.... So in essence creating a belief from something that isnt actually quit true but if you believe it is can have quit a powerful psychological effect both positive and negative just as is religion as a whole!

There are numerous phrases about god apparently saying slavery is ok and that such men can have slaves etc. Which is contradictory to many other areas of the bible... My view is Religion was made for man by man as a form of mass control! However, I am spiritual and though i do not believe in the fundamentals of the bible ( often find the more religious someone pertains themselves to be = more the a***hole! Sorry, just my experience!) i have had an experience when an operation didnt go according to plan! So am rather on the fence on that one!

I could go on but certainly dont wish to cause a religious debate to get out of hand... I respect peoples faiths/views even though i hold my own and as long as they/we are good to each other i have no discrimination against any faith. Its only when faith is used for evil i have issues with...

was just a passing thought :roll:


"I argue this because for an example the Hypnotist Derren Brown managed to convince someone to take a blue pill that would cure the individual from vertigo. Over a short period of time after taking a number of pills he was able to stand atop of a bridge and look down without issue only to be then told the pill was a placebo.... So in essence creating a belief from something that isnt actually quit true but if you believe it is can have quit a powerful psychological effect both positive and negative just as is religion as a whole!"


In regards to the placebo, they say that a placebo drug works better than the real thing! The brain is a powerful thing. It's like a person who is doing just fine then finds out they have cancer - I have seen this, and they die in a month. I have this friend at work who said she was quite depressed then she started zoloft. When I saw her at work, she was saying how "happy" she was now (honestly, I couldn't tell a difference in her personality) because of the zoloft, however, she had only had a couple doses. I have taken antidepressants myself and know they don't act that fast. I think a lot of people would benefit with exercise, meditation and biofeedback instead of meds, but that's a whole other story...


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UncannyDanny
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24 Feb 2017, 11:33 am

"The Bible says" is not necessarily adequate to be religious.

Also, the Bible is not written by God Himself, but the people who believed in Him. And a lot of stories in there are old, so they can be mistranslated and/or misinterpreted.

Whether you believe or not, God gave us free will so we have the right to do whatever we want. However, He ALSO gave us common sense so we have the right to believe whether or not certain things are considered acceptable or not.

The stories in the Bible...even as a Christian, I don't HAVE to believe every word for word what the Bible says. I just simply have faith.


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newnature
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24 Feb 2017, 12:13 pm

UncannyDanny wrote:
"The Bible says" is not necessarily adequate to be religious.

Also, the Bible is not written by God Himself, but the people who believed in Him. And a lot of stories in there are old, so they can be mistranslated and/or misinterpreted.

Whether you believe or not, God gave us free will so we have the right to do whatever we want. However, He ALSO gave us common sense so we have the right to believe whether or not certain things are considered acceptable or not.

The stories in the Bible...even as a Christian, I don't HAVE to believe every word for word what the Bible says. I just simply have faith.


The Sign of Cancer, in the centre of the Sign there is a remarkably bright cluster of stars, so bright that they can be sometimes seen with the naked eye. It looks like a comet, and is made up of a great multitude of stars. Its ancient name has come down to us as Praesepe, which means a multitude, offspring. The brightest star is called Tegmine, means holding. The star in the lower large claw, is called Acubene, means the sheltering or hiding-place.

In Cancer we see it with reference to his redeemed. The three constellations develop the truth. What is now called Ursa Minor is the Lesser Flock; Ursa Major gives us The Sheepfold and the Sheep; while Argo, The Ship, shows the travelers and the pilgrims brought safely home, all conflict over.

Ursa Minor. The Little Bear - the lesser sheep-fold. A grievous mistake, or ignorant perversion of primitive truth, as shown in the ancient names of these two constellations. No bear was ever seen with such a tail! No one who had ever seen a bear would have called attention to a tail, such as no bear ever had, by placing in its very tip the most important, wondrous, and mysterious Polar Star, the central star of the heaven, round which all others revolve. 

The brightest star, at the point of the tail, is the most important in the whole heaven. it is named Al Ruccaba, which means the turned or ridden on, and is today the Polar or central star, which does not revolve in a circle as does every other star, but remains, apparently, fixed in its position. But though the star does not revolve like the others, the central point in the heaven is very slowly but steadily moving. When these constellations were formed, the Dragon possessed this important point, and the star in Draco, marked this central point. But, by its gradual recession, that point is sufficiently near this star Al Reccaba, in the Lesser Sheepfold, for it to be what is called the Polar Star. The Polar Star has been removed from the Dragon, and is now in the Lesser Fold.

But, how could this have been known five or six thousand years ago? How could it have been known when it received its name, which means the turned or ridden on? That it was known is clear; so likewise was it made known in the written Word that the original blessing included not merely the multiplication of the seed of faithful Abraham, but it was then aded, “And thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies” (Genesis 22:17).

Is not this the primitive truth of the Revelation? Will not this Lesser Fold be high, yea, the highest in position? The Polar Star has been removed from the Dragon, and is now in the Lesser Fold; and when the Dragon shall be cast down from the heaven, the Lesser Fold will be safely folded there. But this is the Lesser Sheepfold, which is compared “to the stars of heaven,” but there is the seed that is compared to “the sand of the sea”, the larger flock who will enjoy the earthly blessing also. Ursa Major (The Great Bear) The fold and the flock.

It is a large and important constellation, and it always presents a splendid appearance, and is perhaps, therefore, the best know of all the constellations. In the Book of Job 9:9; 38:31-32 it is mentioned under the name of Ash. “Canst thou guide Ash and her offspring?” which is rendered in the AV, “Arcturus and his sons.” The brightest star is named Dubhe, which means a herd of animals, or a flock, and gives its name to the whole constellation. The ancient Israelite commentators interpreted Ash as the seven stars of this constellation. There is not one discordant voice in the rich abundance of this testimony. We see only the innumerable seed gathered by him who scattered (Jeremiah 31:10). The prophecies of this gathering are as conspicuous in the Word of God as the “Seven Stars” in the sky. It is difficult even to make a selection from the wealth of such promises (Ezekiel 34:12-16). It is of this judgment with which this book, and indeed the whole Revelation, ends, in the next Sign, and final chapter, Leo.

But before we come to Leo, we have one more picture in the third constellation of this Sign, which combines the first two in one. Argo (The Ship) The pilgrims safe at home. Argo, it tells of that blessed home coming (Isaiah 35:10; 51:9-11; Jeremiah 31:11-12). The return of the great emigrant-ship (Argo) and all its company of travelers, for this is the meaning of the word Argo. It will indeed be a large vessel, the true Argo, with its company of travelers, “a great multitude which no man can number.” Its brightest star is called Canopus which means the possession of him who cometh. Is not all this exactly in harmony with the rest of this sign? Jeremiah 30:10-11; the whole chapter of Isaiah 60 should be read if we wish to understand the great teaching of this Sign of Cancer. 



UncannyDanny
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24 Feb 2017, 12:15 pm

^What is your point, exactly? :?


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newnature
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24 Feb 2017, 12:19 pm

UncannyDanny wrote:
^What is your point, exactly? :?


A figure of speech relates to the form in which the words are used. It consists in the fact that a word or words are used out of their ordinary sense, or place, or manner, for the purpose of attracting our attention to what is said. In Genesis chapter three, we have neither allegory, myth, legend, nor fable, but literal historical facts set forth, and emphasized by the use of certain figures of speech. When Satan is spoken of as a ‘serpent’, it is the figure Hypocatastasis or Implication. An implied resemblance or representation. 

Other figures of speech are used in Genesis 3:14-15, but only for the same purpose of emphasizing the truth and the reality of what is said. “Thou shalt bruise his heel”, it cannot mean his literal heel of flesh and blood, but suffering, more temporary in character. 

“He shall crush thy head”, it means something more than a skull of bone, and brain, and hair. It means that all Satan’s plans and plots, policy and purposes, will one day be finally crushed and ended, never more to mar or to hinder the purposes of God.

This will be effected when Satan shall be bruised under our feet (Romans 16:20). This, again, will not be our literal feet, but something much more real. The bruising of the second Adam’s heel is the most eloquent and impressive way of foretelling the most solemn events; and to point out that the effort made by Satan to evade his doom, then threatened, would become the very means of insuring its accomplishment; for it was through the death of the second Adam that he who had the power of death would be destroyed; and all Satan’ power and policy brought to an end, and all his works destroyed.



UncannyDanny
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24 Feb 2017, 12:52 pm

^Oh, right, right! Yeah, I do agree that ancients texts DOES contain figures of speech, but it really bugs me that people tend to take every single thing said in the Bible literally. In my honest opinion, I don't think it's just us autistic people who are literal-minded, I think its anyone in general who don't understand metaphors very well.


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newnature
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24 Feb 2017, 12:58 pm

UncannyDanny wrote:
^Oh, right, right! Yeah, I do agree that ancients texts DOES contain figures of speech, but it really bugs me that people tend to take every single thing said in the Bible literally. In my honest opinion, I don't think it's just us autistic people who are literal-minded, I think its anyone in general who don't understand metaphors very well.


The history of Genesis chapter three is intended to teach us the fact that Satan’s sphere of activities is in the religious sphere, and not the spheres of crime or immorality; that his battlefield is not the sins arising from human depravity, but the unbelief of the human heart. We are not to look for Satan’s activities today in the newspaper press, or the police courts; but in the pulpit, and in professors’ chairs. Whenever the Word of God is called in question, there we see the trail of that old serpent?

Genesis 3:14-15 - What literal words could portray these literal facts so wonderfully as these expressive figures of speech? It is the same with the other figures used in versus 14, “On thy belly shalt thou go”. This figure means infinitely more than the literal belly of flesh and blood. It paints for the eyes of our mind the picture of Satan’s ultimate humiliation; for prostration was ever the most eloquent sign of subjection. Ps. 44:25 denotes such a prolonged prostration and such a depth of submission as could never be conveyed or expressed in literal words.

What literal words could portray these literal facts so wonderfully as these expressive figures of speech? 



Yo El
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02 Mar 2017, 11:12 am

newnature wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I like chile con carne. It's very carnal.

The empiricist side of me wants to see evidence that there is an entity worthy of worship, worthy of prostration.

Until then, I remain an agnostic who lacks faith in a Supreme Being.


This will be the issue at the Great White Throne Judgment. People will be standing there not clothed in the Savior’s righteousness because they’ve rejected what Jesus accomplished where their sin debt is concerned. They’ll be standing there in their own righteousness and that righteousness is the righteousness Paul said, I don’t want to be found in that. I won’t measure up. Nobody’s righteousness will measure up. You say, well, there are a lot of good people out there. Yes, from an earthly perspective, certainly they are good, but not when their earthly goodness is measured beside God’s perfect righteousness. It doesn’t cut it. We might think of them as good and they would be good relatively speaking; good citizens, good neighbors, good people from a relative standpoint, but from God’s standpoint, they do not measure up to who he is. And so therefore, we have the dilemma of the human race. Just as religion did not save the Israelites during the time of the law contract, religion could not save the Gentiles during that time either; just as it cannot save Israelite or Gentile today. Religion is an equally inadequate self-defense plea today for people to make as it was in Paul’s day. And we’re not even under the law program today according to Paul, we’re under grace.


You are right there even is some symbolism in Genesis about this.
" Genesis 3:7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves. Genesis 3:21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them." People can't cover their own sins by themselves. Only God can cover your sins, and the clothes are covered in innocent blood.

It's very important to read the Old Testament, people should read it more often and not disregard it. I don't see why people say it is corrupted. God said that he would preserve His Word. And I trust that God does His part as He has always done and always will.