Is gender a binary or a spectrum?

Post Reply New Topic

Which is where postmodernism comes to the rescue.

You are not entirely correct. You are apparently not familiar with intersexed conditions...though I don't fault you for this as they are not often covered in school health and biology curriculum.

Chromosomes contain genes which provide templates for the production of what usually are proteins or similar compounds. Sometimes the protein or compound is a stand alone protein or compound, and sometimes they are one link in a long series of steps called a "signaling pathway".

Typically in humans, a female has XX chromosomes and a male has XY chromosomes, but not always. The default phenotype for a human is female. It's possible for a person to have an X chromosome and no Y chromosome. When this happens, it's called Turner Syndrome. These people have female genitalia, a female form, and usually internal female reproductive organs, though they are often, but not always, infertile.

X0 Woman with Turner Syndrome


It takes something special for a human fetus to form into a male, and that something special isn't actually he Y chromosome, it's the SRY gene. The SRY gene is the gene that starts the ovotestes on the path to develop into testes and begin releasing androgens which cause the development of male genitalia. The SRY gene does not always end up on a Y chromsome. Sometimes it ends up on an X chromosome and causes what is known as an XX male. These males usually have no idea they do not have a Y chromosome, though they are often infertile because sperm production is controlled by other genes int he Y chromosome, which XX males don't have.

There are also XY females. This can be someone who's Y chromosome lacks the SRY gene, or who has the SRY gene but who has another mutation elsewhere that makes their androgen receptors partial or completely non-functional. The latter case is called Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. In the case of partial androgen insensitivity syndrome, the genitalia may be ambiguous, but in the case of complete androgen insensitivity syndrome, the genitalia is entirely female. These girls and women will never virilize because they can't respond to testosterone. They typically don't know they differ from XX females until they fail to start menstruating and see a doctor. Many people believe this is what the runner Caster Semenya has, but I believe she actually has a severe form of psuedohypospadias because though she has female genitalia, she has obviously virilized and can respond to testosterone.

XY Women with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome


On the other end of the spectrum are XX males with congenital adrenal hyerplasia. Congenital Adrenal Hyerplasia is caused by mutations in genes that produce enzymes that mediate sex steroid production by the adrenal glands. XX males with congenital hyperplasia do not have the SRY gene, but their body naturally makes very high levels of androgens/testosterone, which cause fetal verilization. In severe instances of this, they have male genitalia and will develop a completely male phenotype if left untreated. They have internal female reproductive organs.

XX Male with Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia


There are also males with two X chromosomes and one Y chromosome. These individuals have underdeveloped male genitalia, wide hips, female pubic hair patterns, female body fat distributions, and often times small breasts.

XXY Male with Klinefelter Syndrome


Then of course there are hermaphrodites. Most people erroneously think that human hermaphrodites have fully formed male and female genitalia simultaneously. This is rarely the case and not part of the definition of hermaphroditism. A hermaphrodite is someone with both ovarian and testicular tissue. Among human hermaphrodites, they may have completely female, ambiguous, or completely male genitalia, and they may have XX chromosome, XX/XY mosaicism where some cells have XX and some cells have XY chromosomes, XY chromosomes, or other chromosomal pairings. Some are fertile and some are not.

Then there are other conditions that cause a mismatch between chromosomes, genes, phenotypes, genitalia and reproductive organs, for example 5-alpha-reductase deficiency, where the child is genetically male, born with female genitalia, and develops male secondary sexual characteristics at pubery, persistant mullerian duct syndrome, where the mullerian duct, which forms in to a vaginal canal and uterus if nothing stops it, continues forming in males, leaving them with an internal vaginal canal and uterus (most men with this condition only discover it when they have an ultrasound or other medical imaging). There are a number of other intersexed conditions I've not mentioned, and there are also intersexed conditions of unknown origin.

So no, a penis does not always make a male and a vagina does not always make a female and XY chromosomes do not always make a male and XX chromosomes do not always make a female, and some people don't have XX or XY.

We're way beyond postmodernist thinking at this point. Progressivism has become a fully-fledged religion, replete with preachers, dogma and doctrine, mythological avatars of good and evil and a whole host of laws governing sinful behaviour. They even have their own redemption myths - all they're missing is a messianic figurehead.

Well right, you're allowed to default on some type of atavistic cobbled belief system, just so long as it doesn't make the mistake of being phallogocentric.

It seems weird that sex and gender are being defined as two different things, I think you are what your chromosomes and genitalia say you are but masculine/feminine/whatever are qualities specific to the individual.

This is an excellent comment. I also feel it's worth mentioning that many if not most human societies have some sort third/other gender expression, people who say that gender is a rigid binary seem to be ignoring both what is observed in science and sociology/anthropology.

The public school awarded me national honors, in human physiology, where it was taught that all the parts of the male and female are analogous, but develop differently, due to hormone exposure.

That being said, there are still two, fixed points on the spectrum of gender.



It doesn't happen. There is noone with a fully developed set of both, at the same time.

Intersexed people might make peace with their deformity, they might be greatly disturbed by it, but are still predominantly male or female, perhaps with a spadia, micropenis, or enlarged clitoris. You might be a male, with feminine features, overall, or vice versa, due to hormone exposure, but the two sexes are still real.

If it was described, in terms of plant anatomy, which also has males, females, and inter sexed, it would be apolitical. You might be able to accomplish a discussion, more objectively, if there were no questions of wealth and social status.

For instance, what recognition do people actually deserve, for unusual, sexual proclivities, or malformed private parts. I recognize that it exists. It doesn't make me feel like a sadist. So what.

If you'll forgive me for quoting you out of order, I completely agree with this. One of the reasons I identify as "agender" is precisely because I want to allow people to use the pronouns THEY'RE comfortable with as opposed to forcing my preferences onto others.

The kids who dye their hair blue, decide their gender is "oak tree," and demand everyone start using "xe" to refer to them are obnoxious. It tends to paint those of us who really have spent our lives struggling with our gender identity in a silly light.



Agreed. Love the comparison BTW.

As for subjectivity, the way I see it, how one chooses to view gender/sex is like debating over whether the glass is half full or half empty. The only thing that is objective is that a glass with water in it exists. Likewise, chromosomes exist, but, beyond that, such as how they fit into society, or how we choose to interpret them, is left open for discussion.

Are intersexed conditions variations on male or female, or are they indications that "male" and "female" aren't the only options? Again, half full or half empty.

Whether intersexed people are still "predominately male or female" is open for interpretation.

http://www.heraldbulletin.com/community ... 96573.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeching_(boys)

Which sex are they?

What if they are homosexual, have spadias, and are not particularly good at sports.

There is an English word for a male or female bodypart, also, if it is very developed, atrophied, or there is an extra hole in it.

I would like to think that we can say stuff like that, here, with no stigma attached, particularly when the medical terms are being used.

It's how we were taught discuss the issue as children, getting sex ed, in the 2nd grade.

And?

It's still open for interpretation.

I still have yet to see anyone give any concrete evidence that gender and sex are strictly "binary" anymore than I've seen anyone give any concrete evidence that they are a "spectrum."

I believe binary.

I do think there is enough room between male and female for mutations though, our species thrives on mutations, I have blue eyes so without mutations I would have no eyes and that would suck.

Agender, it's personal and belongs to the individual, as long as they don't talk rubbish about dragon kin or pronouns then you are forcing people to make their feelings known on something where their opinion is worth nothing.

Stick with the binary choice for forms and official use, you are closer to one or the other biologically so pick the best fit.

Outside of official forms, have fun in the grey zones, it's where everyone actually lives.

I have unwittingly caught people in illicit relations, and was told by one of the people that they were not remorseful; it is exactly what it looks like and no other thing.

It's the word for an object, and, if you are being objective, it is not open to interpretation.

If you feel that you are in-the-right, make peace with it, in the same language, which everyone else uses.

Whether people agree with you or not, at least, make them think that you have a grasp on reality, and are acting intentionally.

Ultimately, gender is whatever you want to view it is. Personally, I agree that it exists on a spectrum and that just because you're biologically male or female, doesn't mean you HAVE to consider yourself as such. You're able to consider yourself anything if you want. Of course, mainstream society might try to oppress you and force that view out of you, but that's irrelevant because mainstream society is comprised of terrified conformists. Like I said, it's honestly up to the person to see it how they want. Like I said, I consider gender to be flexible and even sex to some degree at this point.

The political origins of feminism came from The French Revolution, about 230 years ago. Now, mainstream society gives social promotions to gender minorities and regards unattended, white males as dangerous.

You're not the maverick.

I have mainly said --
There is LARP'ing and there is deluded.
Don't sexualize a g-rated venue.

Yes, we know that it exists, already. You have successfully spread word of it, to everyone. But, it's still a paraphilia.