Could "climate change" be a trick for one world government?

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19 Dec 2017, 10:50 am

We used to be zone 6,now we are zone 7 on the agri growing zone maps.Obviously it's warmed up.
Tell the Marshall Islanders that climate change is not an issue.
https://walrus.wr.usgs.gov/climate-change/lowLat.html

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kokopelli
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19 Dec 2017, 11:50 am

Trogluddite wrote:

Estimates for when the next major glaciation will happen are around 50,000 years hence, based on correlations with the Earths orbital variations (with the usual caveats about margins of error of course). I think the human race has many rather more pressing problems that it could do with dealing with first.

As I see it, the current movement in the direction of warming is happening faster than we are dealing with it, or even planning to deal with it. Where are the contingency plans for moving US east-coast economic centres if hurricane frequency and intensity keep rising? Who will take in the people displaced from Bangladesh, Micronesia, the Caribbean, or even Florida and the lower Mississippi as the sea inundates them? Will the state assist those people, or will they have to fend for themselves? Keeping our fingers crossed while we carry on business as usual doesn't seem wise to me, and if we're going to keep dragging our feet over making a move, investigating ways to slow the rate of change only seems prudent.

So somehow this warm is going to be magically considerably longer than previous warm periods going back many hundreds of thousands of years that typically lasted about 10,000 to 12,000 years?

Where do you get this idea?

For what it's worth, if it does last 50,000 years longer, that will be great for mankind.

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19 Dec 2017, 12:01 pm

Misslizard wrote:

Let's hope it keeps warming.

As for sea level rise, there's nothing magical about the current sea level. It has been quite a bit higher in the past -- not only in previous interglacial warm periods, but also in this interglacial warm period. I think that, historically speaking, this is a relatively cool interglacial warm period.

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19 Dec 2017, 12:23 pm

Tell that to somebody whose beach house just floated away, out to sea.

People should look at the microcosmic, as well as the macrocosmic, viewpoint.

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19 Dec 2017, 12:58 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

Tell that to somebody whose beach house just floated away, out to sea.

People should look at the microcosmic, as well as the macrocosmic, viewpoint.

Nobody's beach house is going floating out to sea. If you want to spend a couple of million on a beach house, then it is your problem whether or not you spent the money wisely. Probably by the time the water is up to the house, you will have torn it down anyway. When you replace it, build it on stilts.

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19 Dec 2017, 1:02 pm

Not even stilts would work if the sea level rises three feet or so.

People buy beach houses for good reasons----because the sea is beautiful. These days, though, because of climate change, they are really taking a calculated risk.

I probably wouldn't buy a beach house myself, by the way. I prefer the mountains.

I like warm weather myself, frankly. I would like a warmer world.

But the people in the Sahel---would definitely prefer it if their climate became cooler and wetter.

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19 Dec 2017, 1:13 pm

kokopelli wrote:

A warm Earth is a productive Earth. Cooling means starvation.

Not necessarily, ever heard of desertification, and rising oceans means less dry land. There are many species of plants, that provide food for us, that cannot thrive in warm environments. Apple trees for instance, they require a certain amount of hours a year where they remain dormant at temperatures below 40F or so. There are also many species of animals that could not thrive in warm environments.

Note: I am only countering your comment, I am not supporting the global warming thing. Desertification is real and devastating but the rising oceans haven’t done much and probably won’t for several hundred years, maybe a century.

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19 Dec 2017, 2:23 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

Which do they want -- cooler or wetter? Contrary to the popular misconceptions about deserts, the driest places on Earth tend to be cooler.

During the Holocene Climatic Optimum when temperatures were as much as 2 C warmer, on average, than today, the Sahara Desert was green and contained lakes and typical African animals and fauna.

There were reports from around 2000 to 2005 that the Sahara is greening up in places that haven't been green since before the Little Ice Age.

Part of that would be due to the fact that warmer air has the capacity to carry more moisture than does cooler air. Also, the weather patterns can change as a result of a change in climate. In the case of the Sahara, it appears that warmer means wetter and greener.

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19 Dec 2017, 2:40 pm

ScarletIbis wrote:

kokopelli wrote:

A warm Earth is a productive Earth. Cooling means starvation.

The problem is that desertification is not a function of temperature. Sure, there are hot deserts. There are also cold deserts. One of the driest places on Earth is in Antarctica where there is so little precipitation that the ground is bare -- there is no ice and snow at all.

And the Atacama is usually referred to as the driest desert on Earth. Can you imagine going centuries without rain?

I suspect that Antarctica actually qualifies as a desert based on the amount of precipitation per year. The thick ice sheets are not due to the high amount of snow falling on the ice -- it is due to how little melts or sublimates. If Antarctica got enough precipitation to not be considered a desert, the ice sheets would be many times thicker.

As for apples, they can be grown in tropical regions such as Mexico. There have also been studies of growing them in Africa that found them doing quite well.

I suspect that with genetic modification, we will be able to produce crops for just about whatever region we want.

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19 Dec 2017, 3:31 pm

kokopelli wrote:

Misslizard wrote:

Yeah,it was plenty warm a few summers back,as in over a hundred for over a month.It didn't help anything grow becuse it didn't rain for months.When temps get too high fruit won't set.Most tomatoes varieties drop blooms when it's over ninety,corn won't produce.
No rain,no food.The aquifers only have so much water and when it's pumped dry,no food.
Some of the small towns here ran out of water and the national guard had to bring in water buffaloes so people had drinking water.
Too much rain,no pollination,crops rot.Try planting wheat and corn when the feild is flooded.
Global warming isn't an a very good description.Climate change is.Weather extremes will be the new normal.

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19 Dec 2017, 3:38 pm

More on rising sea levels.
http://ocean.si.edu/sea-level-rise

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kokopelli
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19 Dec 2017, 3:55 pm

Misslizard wrote:

More on rising sea levels.
http://ocean.si.edu/sea-level-rise

Would you rather we were still in the Little Ice Age?

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19 Dec 2017, 4:49 pm

If it means excellent harvests and bountiful rain, I’d endure the cold.

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19 Dec 2017, 6:04 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

If it means excellent harvests and bountiful rain, I’d endure the cold.

It wouldn't mean that.

Plants don't grow all that well in the cold. Even with the relatively small drop in temperatures from The Little Ice Age, life got much harder in many countries. Before The Little Ice Age vineyards were apparently not unusual in England. The Little Ice Age ended that. In the Desert Southwest of the US, the Anasazi people are thought to have encountered drought bad enough as we entered the Little Ice Age that they could no longer survive in their cliff dwellings. There were reports in some countries of people having to grind tree bark to make a flour so that they had something to eat.

If cold meant excellent harvests, then we wouldn't need greenhouses at all. The Little Ice Age would have been a time of plenty and starvation would have become less common. The Anasazi people wouldn't have had to move elsewhere in order to survive.

Now that the Little Ice Age is over and we are warming up, vineyards are returning to England. About the only time people grind tree bark is if it is a valuable spice such as cinnamon. I have read about people on some Mediterranean island who will grind tree bark to make a flour to use to bake some traditional cookie.

Look at wheat. In central Mexico, it is warm enough to have two growing seasons a year for wheat. They can also do that in Hawaii. You don't find that in the continental United States.

If you want excellent harvests, you need a warm climate.

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20 Dec 2017, 3:03 am

kokopelli wrote:

Misslizard wrote:

More on rising sea levels.
http://ocean.si.edu/sea-level-rise

Would you rather we were still in the Little Ice Age?

It might be preferable to toasting in heat.During the drought here chickens were dropping dead,people had to drive out of state to buy hay for cattle,then the bottom fell out of the beef market.And when I mean chickens,I mean whole Tyson houses.Not that I like Tysons,I don't.Big trees died,huge old oaks and beeches.I lost some on my land that you couldn't reach around.
Not to mention NO water.You ever had to ration water? I have,it sucks.Then the constant wildfire threat.Sort of make you nervous when you smell smoke.Then we were told to have bug out bags and pet carriers ready to go.Never before in my life did I worry about a wild fire.We are in a drought right now and unseasonably warm.I don't even have a fire in the wood stove right now.I see no benefit from it being warmer.It will mean a longer tick season.Oh yeah,we have west Nile also.With warmer weather we can have Zika.
The old timers told me it used to be cold enough here to skate on the river,never seen it like that in my life.You could butcher a hog in the fall and hang it to cure and it stayed cold enough to do it.Not anymore.
Warmth is only beneficial if you have moisture.If the climate is changing you may get too much or none.
Some crops require a chill period to produce,some do better in cooler weather,Cole crops,greens,certain fruit trees.
Lilac have to be cold to produce blooms,not a food item.But I sure do like the smell.

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kokopelli
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20 Dec 2017, 4:04 am

Misslizard wrote:

kokopelli wrote:

Misslizard wrote:

More on rising sea levels.
http://ocean.si.edu/sea-level-rise

Would you rather we were still in the Little Ice Age?

Drought is caused by the lack of rain, not because of higher temperatures.

Any climate change, whether cooler or warmer, may result in some change of weather patterns. You cannot just assume that it will get drier.

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