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Basic Income should be a basic right

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Mudboy
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04 Mar 2018, 12:57 pm

Pepe wrote:
Mudboy wrote:
About one third of the Aspies in my local support group are getting SSI because they can't work. Most of those on SSI are able to hold conversations, but not jobs.
Do they still try to find a job?
A few are still trying. Most are satisfied doing volunteer work or arts and crafts. Others spend most of their time at the community center, where they can be with people and feel accepted. A few still have not figured out what to do, or are happy in isolation.


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katy_rome
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04 Mar 2018, 1:28 pm

Greek ex-Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis, a brilliant economist. Here he is talking about UBI.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuoc3cZfaNU

By the way maybe we need to study a little about what capitalism IS before saying we identify strongly with it. I think most people haven't got a clue what it means and just go along because we have this weird illusion that it means 'freedom' ... which is VERY far from the truth.

There are many powerful lobbies who benefit from us all believing this. I think we need to learn how to use our brains a little.. you know, do some reading? research?... and not just allow ourselves be spoon-fed. Gaga.



Daniel89
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04 Mar 2018, 1:42 pm

katy_rome wrote:
Greek ex-Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis, a brilliant economist. Here he is talking about UBI.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuoc3cZfaNU

By the way maybe we need to study a little about what capitalism IS before saying we identify strongly with it. I think most people haven't got a clue what it means and just go along because we have this weird illusion that it means 'freedom' ... which is VERY far from the truth.

There are many powerful lobbies who benefit from us all believing this. I think we need to learn how to use our brains a little.. you know, do some reading? research?... and not just allow ourselves be spoon-fed. Gaga.


Capitalism is the private ownership of property. What exactly qualifies Yanis Varoufakis to be a brilliant economist?



katy_rome
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04 Mar 2018, 2:25 pm

Daniel89 wrote:
katy_rome wrote:
Greek ex-Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis, a brilliant economist. Here he is talking about UBI.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuoc3cZfaNU

By the way maybe we need to study a little about what capitalism IS before saying we identify strongly with it. I think most people haven't got a clue what it means and just go along because we have this weird illusion that it means 'freedom' ... which is VERY far from the truth.

There are many powerful lobbies who benefit from us all believing this. I think we need to learn how to use our brains a little.. you know, do some reading? research?... and not just allow ourselves be spoon-fed. Gaga.


Capitalism is the private ownership of property. What exactly qualifies Yanis Varoufakis to be a brilliant economist?


Well that's a tiny part of it... by no means a complete picture. Have you read Marx? Maybe we can agree that he is someone who wrote very insightfully on capitalism? (and I'd suggest not commenting on it if you haven't read him - as these things become hopelessly politicised and people get unnecessarily very excited over them)

Well, obviously it's my opinion that Yanis Varoufakis is brilliant :-)

However objectively speaking.. the man studied economy at various universities incl. Cambridge, he's written about a dozen books on economics, works as a finance analyst, has been interviewed by a large number of high profile people on.. oh, funnily enough economics! ... then his job as Finance Minister... goodness. Not impressed by the CV?

Perhaps try reading a little of his stuff and you might either not understand a word or else come to the conclusion that the man is... rather brilliant!!



Daniel89
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04 Mar 2018, 3:04 pm

Why would I read Marx? Marx Conflated stolen aristocratic wealth with earned capitalist wealth. Imagine if Marx never existed and instead of communist revolutions we had revolutions similar to the American revolution how many lives would have been saved? How more advanced would our world be?



katy_rome
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04 Mar 2018, 3:16 pm

Daniel89 wrote:
Why would I read Marx? Marx Conflated stolen aristocratic wealth with earned capitalist wealth. Imagine if Marx never existed and instead of communist revolutions we had revolutions similar to the American revolution how many lives would have been saved? How more advanced would our world be?


Daniel.. 89, does that mean that you're really young? Lucky ting. Anyway just wanted to say SORRY!! As I realised after my last post I'm being such an intellectual snob, annoying even myself :? . And I read far too much. So never mind, each to their own opinion. Best to you!



Daniel89
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04 Mar 2018, 3:19 pm

katy_rome wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Why would I read Marx? Marx Conflated stolen aristocratic wealth with earned capitalist wealth. Imagine if Marx never existed and instead of communist revolutions we had revolutions similar to the American revolution how many lives would have been saved? How more advanced would our world be?


Daniel.. 89, does that mean that you're really young? Lucky ting. Anyway just wanted to say SORRY!! As I realised after my last post I'm being such an intellectual snob, annoying even myself :? . And I read far too much. So never mind, each to their own opinion. Best to you!


No need to apologise healthy debate is part of a healthy society.



DarthMetaKnight
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04 Mar 2018, 3:27 pm

Daniel89 wrote:
Why would I read Marx? Marx Conflated stolen aristocratic wealth with earned capitalist wealth. Imagine if Marx never existed and instead of communist revolutions we had revolutions similar to the American revolution how many lives would have been saved?


Marx was not the only revolutionary socialist thinker. He was just the one who rose to prominence.

If Marx had never existed, some other European socialist would have likely taken his place. Perhaps Frederic Engels would have formulated scientific socialism on his own. Perhaps authoritarian socialists would hold up Charles Fourier as a messiah instead of Marx.

Quote:
How more advanced would our world be?


What was the earth's first artificial satellite?

Who was the first dog in space?

Who was the first man in space?

Who was the first woman in space?


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Daniel89
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04 Mar 2018, 3:34 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Why would I read Marx? Marx Conflated stolen aristocratic wealth with earned capitalist wealth. Imagine if Marx never existed and instead of communist revolutions we had revolutions similar to the American revolution how many lives would have been saved?


Marx was not the only revolutionary socialist thinker. He was just the one who rose to prominence.

If Marx had never existed, some other European socialist would have likely taken his place. Perhaps Frederic Engels would have formulated scientific socialism on his own. Perhaps authoritarian socialists would hold up Charles Fourier as a messiah instead of Marx.

Quote:
How more advanced would our world be?


What was the earth's first artificial satellite?

Who was the first dog in space?

Who was the first man in space?

Who was the first woman in space?


The socialists valued propaganda over feeding their people. I'd rather not have millions of people starve than go into space. Capitalists societies achieved far more than socialists ones.



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04 Mar 2018, 6:18 pm

Daniel89 wrote:
Why would I read Marx? Marx Conflated stolen aristocratic wealth with earned capitalist wealth. Imagine if Marx never existed and instead of communist revolutions we had revolutions similar to the American revolution how many lives would have been saved? How more advanced would our world be?


If it wasn't for Marx, in all probability German would be an agricultural society these days and would have lost about 25 million people through a human-made famine after WWII...
Kudos to Marx... :salut:



Daniel89
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04 Mar 2018, 6:21 pm

Pepe wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Why would I read Marx? Marx Conflated stolen aristocratic wealth with earned capitalist wealth. Imagine if Marx never existed and instead of communist revolutions we had revolutions similar to the American revolution how many lives would have been saved? How more advanced would our world be?


If it wasn't for Marx, in all probability German would be an agricultural society these days and would have lost about 25 million people through a human-made famine after WWII...
Kudos to Marx... :salut:


Why wouldn't they have become industrialised like the UK?



Pepe
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04 Mar 2018, 6:48 pm

Daniel89 wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Why would I read Marx? Marx Conflated stolen aristocratic wealth with earned capitalist wealth. Imagine if Marx never existed and instead of communist revolutions we had revolutions similar to the American revolution how many lives would have been saved? How more advanced would our world be?


If it wasn't for Marx, in all probability German would be an agricultural society these days and would have lost about 25 million people through a human-made famine after WWII...
Kudos to Marx... :salut:


Why wouldn't they have become industrialised like the UK?


In all probability, the American Morgenthau plan would have been implemented after WWII...
If it weren't for the Communist threat, they would have probably gone ahead with it to destroy the re-industrialisation of Germany to make sure the Germans didn't start another world war...
The death of 25 million people is a small price to pay for peace, especially if it would be those dirty filthy Nazis who would die... :twisted:

So there is no misunderstanding in regard to my position, The Morgenthau Plan was an abomination and a tool of retribution which would have punish every German man, woman, child and foetus for the sins of some of their forefathers...
The collective guilt is still being enforced 73 years later...
Thankfully I shrugged off this nonsense decades ago... 8)
I wasn't even born at that time...
And I am not even a full blooded kraut, ffs... 8O



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05 Mar 2018, 2:59 am

Daniel89 wrote:
Why would I read Marx? Marx Conflated stolen aristocratic wealth with earned capitalist wealth. Imagine if Marx never existed and instead of communist revolutions we had revolutions similar to the American revolution how many lives would have been saved? How more advanced would our world be?

Didn't the American colonies after their war of independence spread east all the way across the continent. How many lives do you feel it would have saved had the Russians done that in Europe.

Also the Russians weren't looking to become a republic run by the top 6%.

And a Russia with the power divided into states would be a Russia conquered.


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05 Mar 2018, 5:06 am

Daniel89 wrote:
katy_rome wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Why would I read Marx? Marx Conflated stolen aristocratic wealth with earned capitalist wealth. Imagine if Marx never existed and instead of communist revolutions we had revolutions similar to the American revolution how many lives would have been saved? How more advanced would our world be?


Daniel.. 89, does that mean that you're really young? Lucky ting. Anyway just wanted to say SORRY!! As I realised after my last post I'm being such an intellectual snob, annoying even myself :? . And I read far too much. So never mind, each to their own opinion. Best to you!


No need to apologise healthy debate is part of a healthy society.


Cool. You're nice.



katy_rome
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05 Mar 2018, 5:07 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Why would I read Marx? Marx Conflated stolen aristocratic wealth with earned capitalist wealth. Imagine if Marx never existed and instead of communist revolutions we had revolutions similar to the American revolution how many lives would have been saved?


Marx was not the only revolutionary socialist thinker. He was just the one who rose to prominence.

If Marx had never existed, some other European socialist would have likely taken his place. Perhaps Frederic Engels would have formulated scientific socialism on his own. Perhaps authoritarian socialists would hold up Charles Fourier as a messiah instead of Marx.

Quote:
How more advanced would our world be?



What was the earth's first artificial satellite?

Who was the first dog in space?

Who was the first man in space?

Who was the first woman in space?



Great more reading material! Thanks DarthMetaKnight. Um, am I supposed to know the answers to those questions? General knowledge and famous people NOT my strong point. Anyone?



Kiprobalhato
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05 Mar 2018, 5:10 am

hint: russia


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