What do you as Autistics think about Affirmative Action

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In some cases, yes. In many cases, no.

"Affirmative action" actually provides incentives for those who hire less competent Blacks & women in favor of White men, which causes a lot of companies to do precisely that, if they don't find enough non-Whites or women at least as competent as White applicants.



See eg. this article on racial discrimination at Harvard.

It's harder to get any official figures on discrimination in companies. Of course, no single company will actually admit to discriminating Whites. Yet, as this article or this article demonstrate, it is happening everywhere.

And that's precisely what one would expect when you incentivise hiring people exclusively based on their race.



As I said, "Old Boys" networks have always been defined primarily by class... not race... nor gender. Privilege has always been mostly a class thing.

Black elites in Africa also oppress poor Blacks.
White elites in Europe also oppress poor Whites.
Female CEOs also oppress male factory workers.
etc.

The whole notion that White men are oppressors & everyone else are their historic victims is nothing but the most blatantly racist nonsense.



Am I not allowed to call blatant nonsense "BS" here? You Americans are so hypersensitive...



Actually, my "BS" statement was directly followed by a video of a lecture by Elizabeth Warren explaining why she believes the (White) middle classes are disappearing. This contradicts your silly claims that the living standards of Whites stayed the same.



White males never did get jobs and promotions, or get elected to public office, based solely on the fact that they are white males.

Today, however, Blacks & women DO get jobs and promotions, or get elected to public office, based solely on the fact that they are NOT white males.

Your defending actual institutional racism as a means to counter an imaginary form of racism that only existed in the minds of racist Liberals like yourself.



Most White men never had any power of influence.

It's always been a pretty small group of upper class and upper middle class people who had any real power and influence.

Most White men throughout history have lived their lives in servitude, just like most non-Whites.



Why is that so hard to believe?

The discrimination of Whites on a massive scale is the logical consequence of institutionalized incentives for hiring people based only on their race.



Reality today :





You keep saying that, but that's simply not the case.



It's members of the "Old Boys" networks who agreed to discriminate poor Whites in the first place.

Again, privilege isn't determine mostly by race or gender. It's determined mostly by class.
Historically, in any era, far, far, far more Whites have been disenfranchised serfs than there have been Whites that had any power worth mentioning.

Last edited by aspiesavant on 16 Jan 2019, 10:53 am, edited 4 times in total.

If you are a black person who wants to use the bathroom in some restaurant in NYC, you will probably be denied.

If you are a white person who wants to use the bathroom in some restaurant in NYC, you will probably be allowed to use it.

You base this on what, exactly?

Experience.

My experience tells me that many Whites have become so afraid to be called a "racist" that they will actually choose to do the opposite.

That's not the way it is in real life. Maybe on college campuses.

There is quite a bit of SJW-ism on college campuses. I happen to work in a library at one. However, I believe most people, even on college campuses, aren't into creating "microaggressions" for themselves.

At my other job with New York City, though, people are pretty "normal." They don't get bent out of shape about things like they do on college campuses.

Women don't mind it if a man opens a door for her, or compliment her on how pretty her dress looks. There is not the assumption, on the part of feminists on my job (some of whom are judges), that all men are part of a Patriarchy designed to oppress women. People just aren't stupid that way. They don't get bent out of shape over every little thing.

Last edited by kraftiekortie on 16 Jan 2019, 11:14 am, edited 4 times in total.

What is it with guys like you? Are we supposed to end any affirmative action and equal rights legislation so whites can go back to feeling better about themselves?

Consider these two cases of White women deciding whether or not to let in a Black man into their appartment building :



I remember another video from that same channel addressing the case of two White employees being fired for refusing to serve Blacks customers after closing hours, even though they only did what their boss told them to do : not serve anyone when a certain amount of minutes have past since closing hour. In this case, the mere perception of coming off as racist was all it took for the White employees to get fired.

I can't seem to find that video, though. Nevertheless, I highly recommend checking out ANY video on Way of the World. Each and every one of them is very educational with respect to the TRUE nature of "diversity" and other major issues plaguing the West.



I favor meritocracy.

"The best person for the job" sounds like a fair and just approach.

"Affirmative action" is anti-meritocratic as it provides incentives for NOT choosing the best person for the job... which is why I oppose it.

"Affirmative action" is not about equality, but all about disenfranchising White men in favor of others.

Evidence, please? My state abolished Affirmative Action, and my company is an Equal Opportunity employer. I have seen more under-qualified white males get rejected by the hiring process than qualified women and non-whites who were accepted. There seems to be an abundance of white males out there who believe that they should be hired ahead of more qualified women and non-whites."The Unz Review" is a known alt-right, white supremacist, and conspiracy theorist publication. Thus, it is worthless as evidence.I saw no such article there.No, they're just more vocal and more visible since Mr. Trump took office. The fact that Congress now has more women and minorities than it ever had before is a clear indication that the "Good Old White Boy" network is losing its once-vaunted dominance.[/quote]And I am focused on the "Old White Boys Network". You are trying to conflate a generalization into a specific -- and old propagandist trick.No, it is historical fact, especially since 1492 A.D.Your personal attack is noted and reported. Profanity is the final tool of the unreasoning mind.You haven't studied much of the history of American history, have you? Most labor unions were set up not only to protect workers from exploitation, but to protect the jobs of white male workers from non-white laborers. And before Obama, no non-white could even hope to be elected President.Evidence, please? I know it may be confusing, but once a woman or non-white person has a job, the fact that they are not while males really has no bearing on promotions, especially in a publically-traded company that relies on government contracts. Even the appearance of a race-based or a gender-based hiring or promotion would bring down the lawyers like a ton of bricks on a rubber raft.Another personal attack, and a lie as well. I am not defending Affirmative Action, nor am I a Liberal. As I mentioned before (had you been paying attention), my state abolished Affirmative Action, and my employer is an Equal Opportunity employer. Our hiring and promotion practices are merit-based; it's just that there seem to be few qualified white males who present themselves for hiring or promotion.Have you really never heard of "White Privilege"? Or are you just disingenuous?Sure, if you go back to before labor unions and focus on feudalism -- those were the REAL Dark Ages -- but then, anyone who wasn't part of the nobility lived in abject servitude.

I view affirmative action as a type of discrimination.

It should be self-evident, really, that providing incentives for hiring people because of ONLY their race or gender results in hiring less qualified people.

Why is the obvious so hard to believe for you?



Great!

Then what I'm saying does NOT apply to your state and your company.

What I'm saying applies to states and companies where racial quota and gender quota still exist.



White supremacist? You know that Ron Unz is a Jew, right?

Anyway, to quote Wikipedia :



Some might argue that actually makes the Unz Review a lot more balanced, more nuanced and thus more reliable than CNN & FOX combined!



So, labeling ANY source as "alt-right", "white supremacist" and/or "conspiracy theorist" is enough for you to disregard ANYTHING they say?

How very biased of you!



????



YOU are the one applying a false generalization, accusing ALL whites of holding power over others, even though most Whites throughout history have been as disenfranchised as most Blacks or Hispanics.



If only those boys who worked their asses off in the coal mines would have known of their "White privilege", eh...





So I'm not allowed to call Americans hypersensitive either?

How ironic it is for you to deem such harmless statements as "personal attacks" while you yourself spout the most virulent racist hogwash!



Actually, I've been reading a lot on American history lately. Re-forging America (1927), for example, has provided me a particularly enlightening insight into American history from colonial days up until the 1920s, and the impact of slavery, the civil war as well as mass migration on the American public during that time period.



What time period are we talking about? The 1910s? The 1920s? The 1930s?

Are you somehow implying that labor unions prevented capable Blacks or Hispanics from getting a job as late as the 1980s or 1990s?

If so, evidence please!



Only racists really care what's the race of the president!

Thank you for demonstrating over and over how racist you are.



Not if the racism is against Whites.

Racism is only ever called "racist" by authorities when non-Whites are the victim.



You were pretty explicitly claiming that there was a time when White males coud get jobs and promotions based solely on the fact that they were White males. That's complete and utter rubbish.

How is it a personal attack to point out how completely nonsensical and racist such a position really is?



Then what ARE you defending?

And if you're not a Liberal, how would you describe your political ideology / background?



For most part, "White privilege" is a Liberal myth.

Privilege is very real, but it is mostly class based rather race or gender based... as I've pointed out several times.

As I've pointed out several tiles, most Whites throughout history have been disenfranchised, just like most Blacks or Hispanices. And just like there have been White oppressors & conquerors, there have been non-White oppressors & conquerors. Remember the Moorish conquest or Spain? Remember Genghis Khan? Or don't they teach about that in college anymore?



Life for the average working class man has been at its worst during the 19th century (must worse than during feudal times), following the start of the industrial revolution. One reason for this, was the supply for unskilled labor being much higher than the demand for this sort of labor, due to migration. In the case of Europe, this was caused mostly by migration of former farmers, giving up their farming life, from rural to urban areas. In the case of North-America, mass immigration from Eastern-Europe was the major issue, and one of the reasons the immigration act of 1924 put strong restrictions of the amount of Eastern-European immigrants that were allowed into the US.

The main reason conditions improved is not so much the rise of labor unions as it is the increased need for skilled workers. Skilled workers are far less common than unskilled workers. Also, they're much less easily replaceable, as it takes a lot of time and effort to learn a specific skill. So, as the need for skilled labor increased, so did the need for better wages and working conditions.

It's just the law of supply and demand, really... And it is not so much "White supremacy" that is to blame, as it is the unrestricted Capitalism that came with the industrial revolution, and the way it uprooted and destabilized entire communities throughout the West. Similar patterns have been observed in eg. post-Maoist China.



As I said, privilege has always been mostly a class issue and not a race issue or a gender issue. That's true for Europe, for India, for Africa and for any other part in the world!

With your "meritocracy," you seem to be implying that whites will end up with most of the jobs, as they're supposed to be always the smartest and most able.
I think your point actually is, make whites wealthy again by turning back the clock of affirmative action and civil rights legislation.

Where on earth do you get that notion from?

I am implying that jobs should go to the best person for the job.

If we take SAT scores as a criterion for excellence, this would imply Asians would be most likely to get the best jobs... then Whites... with only a small minority of Latinos and Blacks being eligible for those jobs.

There is nothing racist whatsoever about that. True equality does not mean we need to have the same amount of Asian, Whites, Latino & Black Civil engineers. True equality means treating members every race the same way. This means the same criteria (in our example SAT scores) should have the same weight for every race, rather than applying a different weight depending on whichever race someone belongs to (which is precisely what what Ivy League colleges like Harvard do when they judge applicants today).





Most Whites were never wealthy in the first place.

The majority of Whites has always been poor.

And my point is that those who want to portray all Whites as historical "oppressors" and all non-Whites as historical "victims" are perpetuating a very racist, incorrect view of reality, which - in the long run - is harmful not just to poor Whites but to everyone.

I love this comment so much! Thank you Fnord for laying it out so clearly.

I'm sorry, but are you justifying incel and alt-right terrorism here? Because that's really what it looks like you're doing, saying they have a good reason to become militant and violent. Is that what you're saying, that you support incel militance? I wonder, do you support incel ideology and agree with it? Please elaborate.

"When you're accustomed to privilege equality feels like oppression."