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cberg
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28 Oct 2018, 12:33 pm

That was my adult response. You compared tasteless arts & crafts to attempted murder.


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28 Oct 2018, 12:52 pm

cberg wrote:
That was my adult response. You compared tasteless arts & crafts to attempted murder.


Try reading my post again and then my response again. Keep following the process until it sinks in.


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28 Oct 2018, 1:46 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Reasons to support liberals:
Social safety net.safty net my ass go read my thread
Equal rights.only for those they like, they don’t support the right to bear arms, due process, they don’t support equality for conservatives or gun owners
Making irresponsible fathers pay for their child's existence (Republicans are the party of personal responsibility, no?)so women should be allowed to choose if they want to have kids but men can’t and their they should be forced to use their body to provide for said kid they never wanted, but no woman decides she doesn’t want kids she can just get it aborted or adopt it out and be free of all responsibility for sex.
Birth control (Yes, there is a pro-life movement that calls birth control murder, too.)that must be why every anti abortion person I’ve seen tells people to use birth control and wants condoms paid for by insurance
Being able to love whoever you want in a consensual relationship, regardless of sexual orientation or race.unless they have mental disability, or believe in stuff you don’t, mean it’s the dems telling liberal women to divorce their conservative husbands
Pro-union. Say what you will, but I was raised in a union household, and my mom was able to stay home, and we enjoyed health coverage in our middle class life style.its not the 1930s anymore man, unions have become gangs that collect and pocket dues for their own wealth
I could go on and on, but I have to go to church.



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28 Oct 2018, 1:50 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
And for f**k's sake. I didn't want this thread to turn into another 'mah side are good yours are baddies'

Only Bill and the first poster were decent enough to give me an adult response.

So what changes do the Democrats need to make?


As a democrat who’s about done with them
They need to stop the anti trump s**t, they need to drop gun control and start supporting the bill of rights(this would get them millions and millions of votes)
They need to actually support the minority’s they claim to
They need to give away most their money and be civil servants they’re suppose to be.
But non of that will happen as they just as corrupt and elite as the gop they claim more high ground over all while trampling peoples rights and attacking minorities



Kraichgauer
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28 Oct 2018, 2:31 pm

sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Reasons to support liberals:
Social safety net.safty net my ass go read my thread
Equal rights.only for those they like, they don’t support the right to bear arms, due process, they don’t support equality for conservatives or gun owners
Making irresponsible fathers pay for their child's existence (Republicans are the party of personal responsibility, no?)so women should be allowed to choose if they want to have kids but men can’t and their they should be forced to use their body to provide for said kid they never wanted, but no woman decides she doesn’t want kids she can just get it aborted or adopt it out and be free of all responsibility for sex.
Birth control (Yes, there is a pro-life movement that calls birth control murder, too.)that must be why every anti abortion person I’ve seen tells people to use birth control and wants condoms paid for by insurance
Being able to love whoever you want in a consensual relationship, regardless of sexual orientation or race.unless they have mental disability, or believe in stuff you don’t, mean it’s the dems telling liberal women to divorce their conservative husbands
Pro-union. Say what you will, but I was raised in a union household, and my mom was able to stay home, and we enjoyed health coverage in our middle class life style.its not the 1930s anymore man, unions have become gangs that collect and pocket dues for their own wealth
I could go on and on, but I have to go to church.


A man can decide not to spread his seed irresponsibly. Otherwise, he should man up and care for the child.
How did you come to the conclusion that being able to love whoever you want consensually means liberal women should divorce their conservative husbands?!?! And since when is a mental disability a deterrent to loving who they want?
1930's?!?!? How old do you think I am? I grew up in the late sixties to the mid eighties. As for unions forcing other workers to pay union dues - - those workers who don't join still get the benefits earned by the union, and so it's only fair that they pay for said benefits. As for unions being gangs - - that could be said of the Teamsters years ago when they had been run by organized crime, but that hardly means that applies to all unions.


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28 Oct 2018, 2:33 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
And for f**k's sake. I didn't want this thread to turn into another 'mah side are good yours are baddies'

Only Bill and the first poster were decent enough to give me an adult response.

So what changes do the Democrats need to make?


Thank you for the kind word. 8)


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28 Oct 2018, 3:04 pm

I think it is inventable be it Antifa or some other organization and individuals in reaction to this weeks "right wing" atrocities will say punching a Nazi and shutting down speakers is as ineffective as "thoughts and prayers" and will escalate to assassinations, bombings, and mass shootings etc in retaliation. I have no idea what is the point of no return. I do not think we have reached that point but I am not sure.

Poll: Almost a third of US voters think a second civil war is coming soon

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Amid widespread political polarization on issues like immigration and recent public confrontations of Trump administration officials, 31 percent of probable U.S. voters surveyed said they think "it's likely that the United States will experience a second civil war sometime in the next five years."

Democrats at 37 percent were slightly more fearful of a second civil war than Republicans at 32 percent, the poll from Rasmussen Reports found.


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28 Oct 2018, 3:20 pm

The Russiagate hoax is complete nonsense and is perhaps the first time in history that an unsubstantiated (literally entirely unsubstantiated) demonisation campaign has survived in the US media for so long. I'm not a supporter of Trump by the way; I despise him just as much as every other US president in my lifetime, but it's terrifying that any US politician, even a president, can have his reputation thrown into the ground on the basis of complete lies. It's not just Trump either; the corporate mainstream media has actually tried to claim that the Russians conspired for Brexit, too (again, with no evidence). They even claimed Chelsea Manning was a Russian agent. It seems like anybody or anything that might potentially be a threat to the military industrial complex and its corporate interests is blamed on Russia, and that's enough to neutralise the threat, appealing to the native Russophobia of North Americans and Western Europeans. It should be pointed out, fo course, that Trump is far from being a threat to the military industrial complex; in his case, it's a diversionary tactic. While people are being diverted by good-guy/bad-guy nonsense and party politics, Big Business takes away the people's wealth and civil rights by stealth. Trump is a slave of Big Business just as much as Obama was. I bet the two of them have a good laugh at the American public's expense if they ever get together in private.

On the poster's main point, it's true that the Democratic Party would have done a lot better if it had presented a genuinely alternative candidate. If Bernie Sanders had got through the primaries, the Democrats would have won by a landslide, but that's just the thing; nobody with a genuine concern for the good of the American public ever will be allowed to reach a stage where he might be elected into office, because Big Business controls the electroral mechanisms of both parties. I think the only hope for the Americans is if they start voting for third parties, like we're doing in Europe.



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28 Oct 2018, 4:47 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
And for f**k's sake. I didn't want this thread to turn into another 'mah side are good yours are baddies'

Only Bill and the first poster were decent enough to give me an adult response.

So what changes do the Democrats need to make?


Thank you for the kind word. 8)


No worries.

So what changes do you think the Democrats need to make with regards to policy. Have a European style national healthcare system?


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JohnPowell
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28 Oct 2018, 4:50 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:
The Russiagate hoax is complete nonsense and is perhaps the first time in history that an unsubstantiated (literally entirely unsubstantiated) demonisation campaign has survived in the US media for so long. I'm not a supporter of Trump by the way; I despise him just as much as every other US president in my lifetime, but it's terrifying that any US politician, even a president, can have his reputation thrown into the ground on the basis of complete lies. It's not just Trump either; the corporate mainstream media has actually tried to claim that the Russians conspired for Brexit, too (again, with no evidence). They even claimed Chelsea Manning was a Russian agent. It seems like anybody or anything that might potentially be a threat to the military industrial complex and its corporate interests is blamed on Russia, and that's enough to neutralise the threat, appealing to the native Russophobia of North Americans and Western Europeans. It should be pointed out, fo course, that Trump is far from being a threat to the military industrial complex; in his case, it's a diversionary tactic. While people are being diverted by good-guy/bad-guy nonsense and party politics, Big Business takes away the people's wealth and civil rights by stealth. Trump is a slave of Big Business just as much as Obama was. I bet the two of them have a good laugh at the American public's expense if they ever get together in private.

On the poster's main point, it's true that the Democratic Party would have done a lot better if it had presented a genuinely alternative candidate. If Bernie Sanders had got through the primaries, the Democrats would have won by a landslide, but that's just the thing; nobody with a genuine concern for the good of the American public ever will be allowed to reach a stage where he might be elected into office, because Big Business controls the electroral mechanisms of both parties. I think the only hope for the Americans is if they start voting for third parties, like we're doing in Europe.


Great post. And yes, now when any decision goes the way the establishment didn't want they just blame Russia. Means they don't need to deal with the consequences.


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cberg
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28 Oct 2018, 5:05 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
cberg wrote:
That was my adult response. You compared tasteless arts & crafts to attempted murder.


Try reading my post again and then my response again. Keep following the process until it sinks in.


I did; I just don't agree with protected speech being contextualized anywhere near violent crime, U.S. law obviously doesn't care if it's tasteless, just look at the president.


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JohnPowell
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28 Oct 2018, 5:20 pm

cberg wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
cberg wrote:
That was my adult response. You compared tasteless arts & crafts to attempted murder.


Try reading my post again and then my response again. Keep following the process until it sinks in.


I did; I just don't agree with protected speech being contextualized anywhere near violent crime, U.S. law obviously doesn't care if it's tasteless, just look at the president.


I never said it was the same. It was more an example of something comparable to Trump's incitement of violence. But people sending ricin to Trump is as bad as the dud bombs.


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28 Oct 2018, 8:58 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
The Russiagate hoax is complete nonsense and is perhaps the first time in history that an unsubstantiated (literally entirely unsubstantiated) demonisation campaign has survived in the US media for so long. I'm not a supporter of Trump by the way; I despise him just as much as every other US president in my lifetime, but it's terrifying that any US politician, even a president, can have his reputation thrown into the ground on the basis of complete lies. It's not just Trump either; the corporate mainstream media has actually tried to claim that the Russians conspired for Brexit, too (again, with no evidence). They even claimed Chelsea Manning was a Russian agent. It seems like anybody or anything that might potentially be a threat to the military industrial complex and its corporate interests is blamed on Russia, and that's enough to neutralise the threat, appealing to the native Russophobia of North Americans and Western Europeans. It should be pointed out, fo course, that Trump is far from being a threat to the military industrial complex; in his case, it's a diversionary tactic. While people are being diverted by good-guy/bad-guy nonsense and party politics, Big Business takes away the people's wealth and civil rights by stealth. Trump is a slave of Big Business just as much as Obama was. I bet the two of them have a good laugh at the American public's expense if they ever get together in private.

On the poster's main point, it's true that the Democratic Party would have done a lot better if it had presented a genuinely alternative candidate. If Bernie Sanders had got through the primaries, the Democrats would have won by a landslide, but that's just the thing; nobody with a genuine concern for the good of the American public ever will be allowed to reach a stage where he might be elected into office, because Big Business controls the electroral mechanisms of both parties. I think the only hope for the Americans is if they start voting for third parties, like we're doing in Europe.


Great post. And yes, now when any decision goes the way the establishment didn't want they just blame Russia. Means they don't need to deal with the consequences.


It would definitely help. But also, I want to see American workers have a higher minimum wage in order to give them more buying power, which would provide the warp engine to the economy. That, and holding the banks and business accountable, with the prosecutions to prove that they are. Along with that, make it virtually impossible for business to move industries overseas for the sake of paying impoverished people a starvation wage just to get out of paying American workers a good wage. And don't be afraid to tax people with money - the rich aren't going to starve just because they would have to pay more.


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29 Oct 2018, 2:27 am

I am reminded of harry Truman's prescient comment about how when given a choice between a genuine [populist] democrat versus a DINO emulating a GOPer, that the voters will choose the real thing every time. I knew when Bernie was shoved aside that the dems just bit it, perhaps for the last time.



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29 Oct 2018, 5:30 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
The Russiagate hoax is complete nonsense and is perhaps the first time in history that an unsubstantiated (literally entirely unsubstantiated) demonisation campaign has survived in the US media for so long. I'm not a supporter of Trump by the way; I despise him just as much as every other US president in my lifetime, but it's terrifying that any US politician, even a president, can have his reputation thrown into the ground on the basis of complete lies. It's not just Trump either; the corporate mainstream media has actually tried to claim that the Russians conspired for Brexit, too (again, with no evidence). They even claimed Chelsea Manning was a Russian agent. It seems like anybody or anything that might potentially be a threat to the military industrial complex and its corporate interests is blamed on Russia, and that's enough to neutralise the threat, appealing to the native Russophobia of North Americans and Western Europeans. It should be pointed out, fo course, that Trump is far from being a threat to the military industrial complex; in his case, it's a diversionary tactic. While people are being diverted by good-guy/bad-guy nonsense and party politics, Big Business takes away the people's wealth and civil rights by stealth. Trump is a slave of Big Business just as much as Obama was. I bet the two of them have a good laugh at the American public's expense if they ever get together in private.

On the poster's main point, it's true that the Democratic Party would have done a lot better if it had presented a genuinely alternative candidate. If Bernie Sanders had got through the primaries, the Democrats would have won by a landslide, but that's just the thing; nobody with a genuine concern for the good of the American public ever will be allowed to reach a stage where he might be elected into office, because Big Business controls the electroral mechanisms of both parties. I think the only hope for the Americans is if they start voting for third parties, like we're doing in Europe.


Great post. And yes, now when any decision goes the way the establishment didn't want they just blame Russia. Means they don't need to deal with the consequences.


It would definitely help. But also, I want to see American workers have a higher minimum wage in order to give them more buying power, which would provide the warp engine to the economy. That, and holding the banks and business accountable, with the prosecutions to prove that they are. Along with that, make it virtually impossible for business to move industries overseas for the sake of paying impoverished people a starvation wage just to get out of paying American workers a good wage. And don't be afraid to tax people with money - the rich aren't going to starve just because they would have to pay more.


Both parties keep doing that. Only the people of the country can put more pressure than they are under through big business. Change has to come above winning.


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29 Oct 2018, 7:18 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
The Russiagate hoax is complete nonsense and is perhaps the first time in history that an unsubstantiated (literally entirely unsubstantiated) demonisation campaign has survived in the US media for so long. I'm not a supporter of Trump by the way; I despise him just as much as every other US president in my lifetime, but it's terrifying that any US politician, even a president, can have his reputation thrown into the ground on the basis of complete lies. It's not just Trump either; the corporate mainstream media has actually tried to claim that the Russians conspired for Brexit, too (again, with no evidence). They even claimed Chelsea Manning was a Russian agent. It seems like anybody or anything that might potentially be a threat to the military industrial complex and its corporate interests is blamed on Russia, and that's enough to neutralise the threat, appealing to the native Russophobia of North Americans and Western Europeans. It should be pointed out, fo course, that Trump is far from being a threat to the military industrial complex; in his case, it's a diversionary tactic. While people are being diverted by good-guy/bad-guy nonsense and party politics, Big Business takes away the people's wealth and civil rights by stealth. Trump is a slave of Big Business just as much as Obama was. I bet the two of them have a good laugh at the American public's expense if they ever get together in private.

On the poster's main point, it's true that the Democratic Party would have done a lot better if it had presented a genuinely alternative candidate. If Bernie Sanders had got through the primaries, the Democrats would have won by a landslide, but that's just the thing; nobody with a genuine concern for the good of the American public ever will be allowed to reach a stage where he might be elected into office, because Big Business controls the electroral mechanisms of both parties. I think the only hope for the Americans is if they start voting for third parties, like we're doing in Europe.


Great post. And yes, now when any decision goes the way the establishment didn't want they just blame Russia. Means they don't need to deal with the consequences.


It would definitely help. But also, I want to see American workers have a higher minimum wage in order to give them more buying power, which would provide the warp engine to the economy. That, and holding the banks and business accountable, with the prosecutions to prove that they are. Along with that, make it virtually impossible for business to move industries overseas for the sake of paying impoverished people a starvation wage just to get out of paying American workers a good wage. And don't be afraid to tax people with money - the rich aren't going to starve just because they would have to pay more.


Both parties keep doing that. Only the people of the country can put more pressure than they are under through big business. Change has to come above winning.


Change usually comes though through winning.


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