Bernin' down the house...

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Yes, I try not to take a selective and ideologically-driven view of history and instead opt for a balanced, evidence-based approach to foreign policy based on ensuring the best outcomes for people in the countries concerned. Intervention has consistently proven itself to be better than non-intervention. If Gabbard had her way then Libya would be in as big a mess as Syria. It's also completely untrue that Obama supported Al-Qaeda in Syria or that the people you describe were the "moderates".

The world is a much better place thanks to US and UN interventions in Sierra Leone, Kuwait, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya, as well as the bombing campaign in Syria. We need a President who is capable of distinguishing between these necessary wars and ideologically-driven ones like those characteristic of US foreign policy in the 60s and 70s and 80s, as well as avoiding stoking the flames of conflict unnecessarily and pushing for peace deals wherever possible. I would suggest that with the exception of his dovish approach to Syria, Obama generally got the balance right - he improved relations with Iran and Cuba dramatically, supported South Korea without unnecessarily antagonising North Korea, and killed Gadaffi, Bin Laden, and 44 other major terrorist leaders. https://thirdway.imgix.net/products/ter ... =960&h=640

Allowing tyrants and terrorists to rampage might sometimes be necessary, but if you have the chance to stop these people and decline it then you're partially responsible for the innocent people they brutalise.

Name off some things that makes Trump so terrible. So far I haven't heard of anything but conspiracies or bringing up his past. So far I've noticed that he has done some good things while he has been in office, I don't really know of any negative things other than; He is racist(non of his policies are racist), He support's Nazi's(completely fabricated), He hates Mexicans(Completely fabricated), He is against LGBTQ(completely fabricated), He is separating illegal immigrants from family members(A result that occurs when one breaks the law and gets caught, we are supposed to enforce law, it's nothing new), He gave the rich a tax break(really, how does that even matter considering not one president nor person seems to care about the deficit, like printing money is infinite and there is no limit to how far in debt we can go). Seriously, with all the people that hate Trump here, I haven't heard one thing that actually sticks and shows how evil he theoretically is. So I would like to learn what makes him so 'deplorable'. Being no one has told me anything about how bad his policies are or what evil deeds he is committing, it seems like hating Trump is more just a Trend, people hate him just to simply hate him or mostly because they buy into all the conspiracies pushed out by non-trustworthy media reports.

Trump is seeking to get rid of Freedom of the Press....a hallmark of the Bill of Rights.

He has authoritarian tendencies which are scary. He and his people use “doublespeak” in a similar fashion as Big Brother and his people use “doublespeak” in Orwell’s 1984.

How is he seeking to get rid of free press? He doesn't allow some press(not all press) to attend because they keep pushing lie after lie, like when he was running around giving speeches, they would aim their cameras at white people and insist the entire crowd was mostly white, which was easily proved false by watching other footage from the same events. I do agree that you can't do that regardless, but at the same time what they are doing with their privilege of free press is extremely corrupt and is a huge problem they are paying for, their ratings are dropping, especially CNN, people are losing faith in all media because they push crap out as news(even fox), click bait that is usually distorted information. I don't think he is seeking to change the constitution to ban free press. Though I will give you that, no matter how much they lie and try to pit people against one another, they still have the right to be present. The problem will solve itself and Elon Musk is addressing the problem by creating a site where you can rate journalists. Which as you would suspect, most of the corrupt sources of media are making a huge fuss about that, insisting it's wrong. So he created a poll to get people to vote, so far 80% of the people who voted say it's a very good idea.

"He has authoritarian tendencies which are scary", what do you mean there, any examples?
What is doublespeak? deliberately euphemistic, ambiguous, or obscure language. He is an idiot and isn't usually politically correct, is that what you mean. Explain more.

In all fairness, he is only attempting to block some media(very wrong to do and he should be informed he can't do that). Hillary and democrats are actually pushing to sensor the internet and succeeding, that is a much more serious attack on free speech than what Trump is doing.

Trump has many, many negatives.

1. Trump wants to DOUBLE war spending.

"The reported $174 billion proposal for fiscal 2020 would more than double the current $69 billion war spending level".
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/ ... ng-1188540

"$576 billion for its main budget, equal to the spending cap, along with up to $174 billion"

2. Trump banned trans people from military service.
https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/7/2 ... litary-ban

3. Trump is making trillion+ dollar deficits in a fantastic economy.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones ... 3d5d8149d1

4. Calls himself "Mr. Tariff". Somehow thinks citizens are better off with higher priced goods. Automakers estimate his steel tariffs will add $5,000 to the price of a new car.

5. Opponent of free markets and free trade deals. Again, he thinks it's good when citizens pay higher prices.

I'm willing to accept that he has negatives, has a president that didn't have negatives ever existed?

The trade deals, I know of one of them for infrastructure and it was not a horrible plan and it was a response to china, which pushes slave labor, dumping cheap steel in our economy that no american company can compete with. It was only for 'infrastructure', I haven't heard of any law passed that straight up bands foreign steel. Can you direct me to an article that makes this claim. The Chinese have also been dumping fake honey in our economy for a long time, an ongoing problem. China isn't exactly a great place, it's hard to compete with people in a free market that has slaves doing their work(or pushes labor for extremely low wages, unjustified). I think that actually knocks off both 4 and 5.

I will look into the 'Trans in military', how I have come to understand it is he attempted to do that and was not allowed. The reasoning wasn't because they are trans, it was because trans have a much higher depression rate. Which doesn't matter because people get checked out on an individual level. He was wrong for 'attempting that', it was never accomplished as far as I know.

I'm confused on the war machine angle, I thought he was doing much less in terms of War than the previous presidents. Though I will say, they already had enough money(as far as I know), people were insisting he gave them money they didn't ask for, that part was fabricated, they are always asking for more money just like everybody else.

As far as I know, pretty much every president spends more than the last, the same was true for Obama.

He is a sh***y president, it seems our history of presidents are sh***y, I don't see how that makes him stand out completely, to be this deplorable guy that the majority of the left hates. Hell, the far left considers everyone that doesn't agree with them nazi's, and the media is mostly pushing their ideologies.

How I have understood it from watching a lot of documentaries is America is dangerously importing everything and abandoning actually producing products to export. While we do benefit by having cheaper products, we do not benefit by importing everything and having very few exports, basically leaking wealth and abandoning trades that used to employee people. That is what he is combating, yes, we may have to pay higher prices, but it's also brings more jobs back to America and bringing wealth back to America. (Buy American, Hire American, was the slogan)

The more I learn about politics the more it sickens me, to be honest. I have little faith in the ultimate outcome, anytime someone tries to do something good, people complain and both sides fight each-other which basically insures that nothing good ever actually occurs. Even reading up on the trade deal that was supposed to help combat china, I don't think it has actually passed. I read an article saying that it still needs to be voted on and democrats are more than likely going to vote against it which means it will not happen. I've heard the same was true for obama-care, that he couldn't get it passed as designed so what they did was settle on a system that was completely destructive and negatively impacted the lives of millions(including me, my experience with obama-care was mandatory insurance that really sucked and did nothing but drain a lot of money from me, a poor person). Our government really sucks, that's why it's funny to hear people complain so much about Trump, he is no different from the rest of the sh***y presidents before him, they all suck! Nothing good ever seems to get accomplished.

I would agree with the points LoveNotHate raised about Trump's weaknesses on trade, trans issues, and unnecessary tax cuts for the rich.

I would further add:

- Provoking North Korea, dramatically escalating the chances of nuclear war.
- Saying that some white nationalists are "very fine people".
- Describing the press as "enemies of the people".
- Repeatedly undermining LGBT+ rights - aside from the aforementioned trans military ban, see here for details of the Trump administration's attempts to undermine LGBT+ rights.
- Repeatedly attempting to undermine the independence of the judiciary and the Federal Reserve.
- Causing one of the longest shutdowns in US government history, leading to a significant impact upon the US economy.
- Calling people peacefully protesting against police brutality "sons of b*****s" who should be fired.
- Separating children from their families; this is a completely disproportionate reaction to the "crime" of illegal immigration, which is ultimately victimless.
- He has reopened coal mines. Coal is the dirtiest fossil fuel and contributes both to declining air quality and global warming. It's also not economically viable to mine it, requiring significant government subsidy.
- He's given notice of America's withdrawal from the Paris Agreement.
- He has threatened to nuke Europe.
- He wants to overturn Roe vs Wade.

You could also add Trump's beliefs that haven't translated into policy. He believes that autism is caused by vaccines and has repeatedly made racist and sexist statements, including his claim that Barack Obama was born in Kenya.

This article criticises Trump from a conservative viewpoint. For most of these issues, you probably think, well, that's just a case of stupidity rather than malice. But someone who makes elementary errors like that, who gets completely intellectually outmatched by the likes of Putin and now Kim, should not be leading America. You have such a great pool of talent - why settle for that mediocre non-entity?

I will research all these things you listed out and get back to you.

"- Saying that some white nationalists are "very fine people"."

I'm already aware that this one is a lie generated by Trump-hating journalists, I will include the evidence to disprove that. While he did say that, it was taken out of context and he wasn't addressing the white supremacists. I have also heard a black woman claim that her black friend, witnessed Antifa and the so called white supremacists getting off of the same bus, meaning it was a hoax and the white supremacists weren't even white supremacists. I will also try to find some evidence(if possible) to prove that.

Technically, in my opinion, journalists that are producing lies and trying to tear this country apart are enemies of the people. It's not right in any kind of way, they are trying to divide people, I have seen a lot of evidence to insist that is true.

I will look into the rest, I have also heard by some gays/lesbians that he is actually doing a lot for the LGBTQ community. That's one of the reasons I'm disgusted with these anti-Trump people, it's perfectly fine to criticize people, it is not find to claim you are a legit source of news while producing a string of lies. I for one dislike the federal reserve and it's written in our constitution that congress is to print money and that it is to be valuable metals(gold and silver) and there is an extremely good reason that was written in . I think it was article 2 section 8. 'Only congress is supposed to print money and No bills of credit are to be used', the federal reserve is not congress and legal tender is a fancy name for bill of credit(IOU), the reason is so when/if the country fails, the people aren't stuck holding a worthless piece of paper, an IOU from a country that collapsed and has no money.

"- Separating children from their families; this is a completely disproportionate reaction to the "crime" of illegal immigration, which is ultimately victimless."

this one we will have to disagree on, I do not consider it wrong to arrest people for breaking laws, especially people insisting that crossing the border illegally and without documentation is acceptable, it's not acceptable in any other country and their a very reasonable reasons for such.

"has repeatedly made racist and sexist statements, including his claim that Barack Obama was born in Kenya."

Saying Obama was born in Kenya is not racism. Racism is hating on a group of people for belonging to a particular race. I've seen way too many false claims of Trump saying racist and sexist statements to believe that, what actually keeps happening is people take his words out of context or they look for meanings in his words other than the meaning it carried(as mentioned, he is not a politician and is horrible at giving speeches, thus his words constantly get twisted and taking out of context, this repeatedly occurs to such a degree that it is completely repulsive, by "not my president" individuals. I rooted for Obama, then I hated him because it appeared he sucked, like every other president. I believed his BS slogan "change" and was very disappointed when the change negatively effected my life in a big way. He was still my president, I see 'not my president' people as traders to our country, he is your president, it would be nice if people stuck to criticizing things he has actually done rather than making things up.

Anyway, I'm going to look into these other things and read the links you have provided. Sadly, everything requires research these days because our slack ass media and journalist don't know how to get the facts straight. You have provided a better list than anyone else so far. So i'll hop on it.

Last edited by Crimadella on 03 Mar 2019, 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Did I ever call you a nazi?

Did I say you did? Let me rephrase, the majority of the far-left labels everyone they disagree with as Nazi fascists, it's no secret.

Citation please

If you need a citation for that there is no helping you.

How you can you whine about people not wanting to debate, if you rat out every time someone pins you on one of your assumptions?

Media that constantly lies and pits the population against each-other are enemies of the people.


How so?, be more specific.

Trump Announces MAJOR Fight For Gay Rights??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWiBlacOYZ0


Sadly we are reaching a point where nothing can be accomplished, plus so many lies and hate for Trump, I would be extremely frustrated too. Maybe it wasn't the best Idea, he should think of a better way, but the border does need security.
Government shutdowns in the United States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governmen ... ted_States



That was a lie fabricated by media, here is what he actually said, and he made it clear that, no he isn't saying white supremacists are fine people. There were 'trump supporter, protesters there that had nothing to do with the white supremacists. I can't find the CNN broadcast that had the black lady say her friend saw the supposed white supremacists and Antifa getting off of bus together, it's out there somewhere.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dntfgOTatIA


Explain what you are talking about here.


https://www.npr.org/2017/06/02/53125525 ... re-opening
apparently that's something people wanted.


Because people voted for him and elected him, that's how democracy works.

As for trade agreements and foreign policy, that is complicated stuff, it would take too long for me to learn about all of that, I don't imagine there are any professionals here that 'know what's best to do'. I will state my beliefs though. I personally feel that we should help out our own country before we stick our noises in other countries. We have plenty of very bad neighborhoods and communities that we have abandoned, it's not right and we should be investing money there first. Forget your own and help the others is what we are doing. We are spending billions of dollars that we don't have to meddle in other countries. I am a sympathetic person, I feel bad for those who have to struggle, but you can't do what you can't afford.

If you are willing to allow the US to spend money we don't have and dig a whole we can't get out of as if money is no object, I suggest for anyone who thinks that is a good idea should lead by example before you ask your country too. Go get some credit cards, give all your money away and max your credit cards out and give that money away, we have plenty of people who need help in the US. That's what you are asking your government to do, if you can't do the same, I don't see how you can suggest the country should do that. And if you believe money is not needed, and we can infinitely print it, don't contradict yourself and suggest that tax breaks for the rich is wrong, if money isn't important, which seems to be what they think because no one cares how much dept we have, than why should any of us pay any taxes? The point of the tax breaks was to encourage more job growth, not to just line the pockets for the rich. We have the highest taxes in the world for rich people which is why a lot of jobs have left the country, why pay taxes here when they can take their business elsewhere and not get taxed to death. I personally believe in the flat tax proposal, 20% for all.
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bonus material: Tim Pool is a very respected journalist and is very fair, and he doesn't even like Trump and said he will more than likely never vote conservative.

Leftist Media Tells Conservative Gays To "Shut The F--- Up"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F2gGGRhy7U

Why Are They Lying About Trump?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiSx6b3XV6o

Trans Activist ARRESTED For HOAX, Burning Down OWN HOME- yes, another fake one and a map of fake hate crimes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcB6F4d_w30

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Am I saying that Trump is a great president? No. But he is our current president and people are going nuts producing 'fake news' like it's going out of style, and it's really sickening. This country is literally F-ed beyond repair I fear. People have become grown children that don't know how to tell the truth nor act like grown-ups. Are political world is very corrupt, Trump is also a crook, the point I'm making is so is everyone else. Also, as I said, if the media wants people to take them serious they could start by telling the truth. Too many claims about Trump are intentionally made up or distorted, like all the claims of him saying racist things. He is stupid, even if he is racist, which is probably true, he would be beyond stupid to inform the American people. I'm tired of the false claims that never seem to pan out to actually be true, it's a waste of time to search for these things, they need to stop crying wolf. Else, no one will know when he actually does something wrong because of so many false claims.

You are repeating CIA propaganda talking points. The evidence is against everything you say. For one the US doesn't intervene to make the world a better place. You mention Kosovo where 'genocide' was the pretext. The number of people killed in the year up to the invasion was 2000, and most of those weren't killed by the government. The most deaths occurred AFTER the invasion. Not to mention that the US was arming and supporting the Turkish government that was murdering tens of thousands of Kurds, then when the government ran out of weapons the US gave them more so they could finish the massacre. The invasion of Afghanistan was illegal based on a pack of lies. It was a great case of international terrorism by the US and the UK. We've been there over 17 years and the Taliban is stronger. We went in for heroin. Iraq was based on a pack of lies, and we killed 1 million people. So no, 1 million dead is not a good thing. Libya was based on a pack of lies, where NATO acted as Al Qaeda's airforce. Now there is open air slavery where black people are slaves again. Libya was one of the most prosperous countries in Africa before the invasion and is now a Jihadi infested hell hole, so no invasion wasn't a good thing. Syria was where we supported organ eating Jihadists to other throw the government. And yes, they were Al Qaeda. But thanks to Russia, Iran, Hezbollah and the Syrian army, Syria is safe again for the people of Syria.

That's hilarious. Obama supported the brutal tyrant regimes in Saudi Arabia and Israel as they decimated Yemen and Gaza. He supported terrorists in Libya and Syria. Everything the US touches turns to hell.