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Mikah
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12 Aug 2019, 4:46 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Just as many articles out there that claim otherwise.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... rs-science


Based on our own laboratory research, during which we have given thousands of doses of marijuana to people – carefully studying their brain, behavioral, cognitive and social responses – we have never seen a research participant become violent or aggressive while under the influence of the drug, as Berenson alleges. The main effects of smoking marijuana are contentment, relaxation, sedation, euphoria and increased hunger. Still, very high THC concentrations can cause mild paranoia, visual and/or auditory distortions, but even these effects are rare and usually seen only in very inexperienced users.

Based on our own laboratory research, during which we have given thousands of cigarettes to people – carefully studying their brain, behavioral, cognitive and social responses – we have never seen a research participant die of lung cancer while under the influence of tobacco, as my political enemy alleges. The main effects of smoking tobacco are contentment, relaxation and decreased hunger. Still, very strong cigarettes can cause a mild cough and nausea, but even these effects are rare and usually seen only in very inexperienced users.

Word for word this could have been written in the 50s by scientists paid by the tobacco lobby and it is all technically correct, but as usual, is deliberately misleading. These guys are more interesting for what they don't say than what they actually do say. There are thousands of documented cases of people committing horrendously violent crimes while high on cannabis. My side believes this may be a result of cumulative use of cannabis - these guys don't want to know and they certainly don't want you to know.

This part is worth responding to though:

It is also worth noting that 10-fold increases in marijuana use in the UK from the 1970s to the 2000s were not associated with an increase in rates of psychosis over this same period, further evidence that changes in cannabis use in the general population are unlikely to contribute to changes in psychosis.

Firstly, we aren't concerned with psychosis specifically, as these scientists probably know, but have crafted a clever straw man to attack instead. We need a new name for this problem, how about "cannabis induced mental disorder".

Secondly, as the same sort of people continually remind us when they talk about the sorry state of mental health care provided by the NHS, psychosis and mental health conditions in general are extremely difficult to diagnose and measure in a population. They say, rightly, that increased levels of psychosis would likely turn up in statistics as increased homelessness or an increase in violent crimes or bright children dropping out of school and onto meaningless lives - not as a measured increase in psychosis - due to subjective diagnostic criteria and the fact that many sufferers end up in prison, dead or worse before a psychiatrist even looks at them.


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Misslizard
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12 Aug 2019, 8:58 pm

As with ANY drug there can be side effects, not even aspirin is 100% side effect free.
Take the SSRI drugs, some people commit suicide on them, others lives are saved.Pain meds, lots of addiction and ODs.
Cannabis is still safer than the majority of prescription drugs.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/ob ... al-health/


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Mikah
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12 Aug 2019, 9:03 pm

Misslizard wrote:
As with ANY drug there can be side effects, not even aspirin is 100% side effect free.
Take the SSRI drugs, some people commit suicide on them, others lives are saved.Pain meds, lots of addiction and ODs.
Cannabis is still safer than the majority of prescription drugs.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/ob ... al-health/


So? Where are you going with this? Occasional terrorism is an acceptable side effect and everything should be legal?


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Misslizard
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12 Aug 2019, 9:27 pm

Mikah wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
As with ANY drug there can be side effects, not even aspirin is 100% side effect free.
Take the SSRI drugs, some people commit suicide on them, others lives are saved.Pain meds, lots of addiction and ODs.
Cannabis is still safer than the majority of prescription drugs.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/ob ... al-health/


So? Where are you going with this? Occasional terrorism is an acceptable side effect and everything should be legal?

Look in a PDR at the side effects that legal drugs have.Cannabis has fewer than overpriced prescription drugs that the doctors push on people.And people can go nutters on prescribed psychiatric medications.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psycho ... link%3famp


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naturalplastic
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13 Aug 2019, 1:25 am

TheOther wrote:
The truth of the matter (as I see it anyways) is that there is a killer instinct in humanity that is there by evolutionary selection.

You can get rid of drugs, guns, video games, and every other perceived societal ill in the world and people will still kill each other.

It can be argued that the killings could be lessened via restrictions on the aforementioned perceived societal ills, but that will have unforeseen consequences. Making drugs illegal, for example, creates a black market that incentivizes the creation of gangs and cartels, and funds them to the tune of billions.

It is unwise to do something if said thing is worse than doing nothing at all. The sad truth is that we cannot control the universe, and people we love and care about are going to get sick, injured, and die no matter what we do.


Yes, but...other countries don't have as many shootings. So how come the "Universe" operates differently outside the US border?



TheOther
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13 Aug 2019, 10:20 am

naturalplastic wrote:
TheOther wrote:
The truth of the matter (as I see it anyways) is that there is a killer instinct in humanity that is there by evolutionary selection.

You can get rid of drugs, guns, video games, and every other perceived societal ill in the world and people will still kill each other.

It can be argued that the killings could be lessened via restrictions on the aforementioned perceived societal ills, but that will have unforeseen consequences. Making drugs illegal, for example, creates a black market that incentivizes the creation of gangs and cartels, and funds them to the tune of billions.

It is unwise to do something if said thing is worse than doing nothing at all. The sad truth is that we cannot control the universe, and people we love and care about are going to get sick, injured, and die no matter what we do.


Yes, but...other countries don't have as many shootings. So how come the "Universe" operates differently outside the US border?


First of all, there are plenty of countries with more firearm related homicides than the United States. Second, there are plenty of metrics by which the USA fairs better than other countries (and plenty of metrics which the USA fairs worse than other countries).

There are no simple causal relationships in societies. Everything is a product of hundreds or even thousands of factors. My only point is that if you change one thing for whatever reason, that can have far reaching consequences which might end up being worse than the thing you tried to fix in the first place. It's like people who take medications for a minor ailment, and end up with side effects from the medication which are worse than the original ailment.