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TwilightPrincess
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19 Dec 2019, 10:44 am

Bradleigh wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
You can not “ensure” the safety of a prostitute. She could very easily be sexually assaulted. Punishing the crime after it occurs is not ensuring safety, nor is diagnosing an STD after she gets one.


And yet Americans think having more guns in circulation makes people safer? Sure, any time a woman (or man) is alone with someone else it could very easily sexually assaulted. The intention of these protections for sex workers is to make it incredibly clear of what rules are and repercussions can be expected, a lot of things in life work this way, but maybe even outlets and changing views could actually help. There can even be requirements of other people close by that can come quickly at a sign of trouble, distress technology could be rather simple, cheap and effective if things get out of hand. Clients might also be required to get check ups for STDs before being able to buy services.

Doing these things would be safer than the way things are now, where things are done regardless, the video I linked earlier even had testimony of sex workers saying that a lot of them fear more violence from police than their clients.


I believe in strict gun control but that’s a separate issue.

Obviously, “sex workers” aren’t just alone with “clients.”

They are being paid for sex. Creepy people (the type that are most likely to use prostitutes for sex in my experience) are probably more likely to be abusive and demean women.

In any case, the risk of sexual assault is much higher than in other service-related businesses.



TwilightPrincess
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19 Dec 2019, 10:54 am

Since it’s apparently a legitimate “career path” or “profession,” I wonder if there’s a place where one can receive rigorous training - perhaps an AA, certification program, vocational program, or mentorship - to ensure “clients’” satisfaction and their continued business. :P



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19 Dec 2019, 11:05 am

I feel like Blazingstar's illustration is very striking---especially since disabled people, many times, have difficulty in obtaining sexual satisfaction.

Why deny disabled people the same good feelings and sensations as "normal" people----within the bounds of civility, of course.



TwilightPrincess
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19 Dec 2019, 11:10 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I feel like Blazingstar's illustration is very striking---especially since disabled people, many times, have difficulty in obtaining sexual satisfaction.

Why deny disabled people the same good feelings and sensations as "normal" people----within the bounds of civility, of course.


So you’re suggesting legalization for disabled people? I can’t envision how that would work.



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19 Dec 2019, 11:22 am

This would require a lot of thought and consideration.

And a requirement for lots of accountability from the workers themselves.

But I do believe that some disabled people (of all genders) are sexually frustrated, and sometimes do untoward things as a result. And that (especially if the "worker" is a fellow disabled person) this sort of thing could alleviate this frustration at least somewhat.

Once, I did work with someone who had a progressive, copper-absorption malady known as Wilson's Disease, which affected him neurologically. He was sexually frustrated, and felt compelled to employ sex workers--which was against the rules for his care (obviously). He never ran away from me----but he ran away from others in order to visit these sex workers.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 19 Dec 2019, 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

TwilightPrincess
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19 Dec 2019, 11:33 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
This would require a lot of thought and consideration.

And a requirement for lots of accountability from the workers themselves.

But I do believe that some disabled people (of all genders) are sexually frustrated, and sometimes do untoward things as a result. And that (especially if the "worker" is a fellow disabled person) this sort of thing could alleviate this frustration at least somewhat.


It sounds nice, but I’m not sure if it could be typically implemented from a practical standpoint. Depending on the nature of the disability, I’d also worry about the correct use of contraceptives and that sort of thing.



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19 Dec 2019, 11:57 am

I believe they have this sort of education in countries (like the Netherlands) where sex work is legal.



TwilightPrincess
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19 Dec 2019, 12:03 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I believe they have this sort of education in countries (like the Netherlands) where sex work is legal.


It’s still not something I would believe in or support, and I don’t think it’s going to happen in the US anytime soon.



blazingstar
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19 Dec 2019, 12:12 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I believe they have this sort of education in countries (like the Netherlands) where sex work is legal.


It’s still not something I would believe in or support, and I don’t think it’s going to happen in the US anytime soon.


I appreciate your beliefs. You are of course entitled to your opinion and many people share it with you.

Can you take a step back and see how disrespectful and patronizing you sound to people with disabilities?

I presume you don't have someone following you around to make sure you have birth control and practice safe sex, choose a responsible disease free partner, etc.

No disrespect meant to your perspective, just asking you to envision the perspective of people spending their entire lives without sex, without touching, without loving contact. You can read about sex workers perspective if you google it.


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TwilightPrincess
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19 Dec 2019, 12:19 pm

blazingstar wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I believe they have this sort of education in countries (like the Netherlands) where sex work is legal.


It’s still not something I would believe in or support, and I don’t think it’s going to happen in the US anytime soon.


I appreciate your beliefs. You are of course entitled to your opinion and many people share it with you.

Can you take a step back and see how disrespectful and patronizing you sound to people with disabilities?

I presume you don't have someone following you around to make sure you have birth control and practice safe sex, choose a responsible disease free partner, etc.

No disrespect meant to your perspective, just asking you to envision the perspective of people spending their entire lives without sex, without touching, without loving contact. You can read about sex workers perspective if you google it.


We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

I am not being disrespectful towards people with disabilities for stating this viewpoint.

People with mental disabilities are frequently taken advantage of. You probably see that a lot in your line of work. I’ve seen it myself.



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19 Dec 2019, 1:06 pm

MushroomPrincess wrote:
Is anyone else here a supporter of Sex Worker Rights? I think it needs to be decriminalized, destigmatized, legalized, and normalized. Some of my best friends are sex workers and I think the marginalization we face is really sh***y.


This topic has been derailed to shame sex workers, suggesting they should find "another line of work" to please a feminist moral imperative. I find many of the comments on this thread sarcastic, sexist against all genders, and presumptuous against autonomous, intelligent people who choose to be sex workers of their own free will. There are several misconceptions presented including:

a) That most sex workers are helpless, victimised females who need to be saved
b) That sex workers are forced into their chosen career like slaves
c) That all of the people who hire female sex workers are male
d) That said males are aggressive, immoral, exploitative and demeaning of female sex workers
e) That women should and must value sex as an emotional expression, unable to detach their feelings
f) That involuntarily celibate men should be shamed for wanting sex
g) That people of any gender or ability who wish to hire a sex worker should be shamed
h) That the workers themselves should be shamed
i) That a female sex worker cannot be a feminist
j) That women's bodily autonomy should protected regarding abortion, but shamed regarding sexuality or sex work

I read an earlier thread saying that women should not be shamed for losing their virginity. I am confused why now they are being shamed for making autonomous choices regarding their bodies and their personal empowerment.

The OP asks for comments from people who would like to discuss and support the rights of sex workers. She did not ask for sex workers of any gender to be dismissed, pitied or invalidated by virtue signallers who think they know best.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/co ... 44176.html


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TwilightPrincess
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19 Dec 2019, 1:41 pm

PPR allows for debates of this nature. If it were a post in The Haven in which someone complained about his or her treatment as a sex worker, it’d be a little different. If a member argues that prostitution should be legalized and decriminalized on PPR, members are free to engage in a debate over it.

The OP asked if people supported sex workers’ rights. If the answer is “no,” people are free to discuss why.

Is it a contentious issue? Sure.

The fact of the matter is that the sex industry continues to cause many problems and will do so whether it’s legalized or not.

It might be safer for all involved if it’s legalized but there’s still a fair amount of risk that is worth discussing.



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19 Dec 2019, 2:22 pm

Rainbow_Belle wrote:
To liberate the sex workers you crack down and arrest the clients. With fewer clients, there is less business for sex workers.

And then we all go shopping for business casual outfits and all get crappy dead-end jobs in an office for some greedy sleazy multinational corporation. Yay capitalism?

Twilightprincess wrote:
“Prostitution” is what it is. The term is more specific than “sex worker.” “Sex worker” encompasses a broad range of activities in the sex “industry.”

Sex Worker is an umbrella term, yes. Prostitute is still a slur. I am an escort.

Twilightprincess wrote:
If your friends feel marginalized, they should explore other career or educational opportunities that are out there.

lol "Why don't you and your friends get real jobs?"

Twilightprincess wrote:
I’m not going to legitimize what “sex workers” do for a living because it’s too problematic and raises too many issues or potential issues. There’s no way to ensure safety which is the biggest problem.

Yes there is. The best way to ensure safety, would be to empower the worker to call the police on an unruly client, or use up-to-lethal defensive force, without fear of being charged with a crime. Which is exactly what the rest of the population has. But you don't want us to have that. So do you really care about our safety?

Fnord wrote:
And sex workers want to keep it illegal so that they don't have to pay taxes on their illegal incomes.[/color]

:lol: Oh s**t, Fnord's on to me!

Twilightprincess wrote:
Since it’s apparently a legitimate “career path” or “profession,” I wonder if there’s a place where one can receive rigorous training - perhaps an AA, certification program, vocational program, or mentorship - to ensure “clients’” satisfaction and their continued business. :P

Sure, why not? I bet I could teach you a thing or two :wink:



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19 Dec 2019, 2:27 pm

MushroomPrincess wrote:
Fnord wrote:
And sex workers want to keep it illegal so that they don't have to pay taxes on their illegal incomes.
Oh s**t, Fnord's on to me!
I should have made it more obvious that I was being sarcastic.

Is being an escort a lot like being an actor? Just asking.



TwilightPrincess
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19 Dec 2019, 2:38 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
If your friends feel marginalized, they should explore other career or educational opportunities that are out there.

Quote:
lol "Why don't you and your friends get real jobs?"


If the stigma bothers you, you might want to try something else. Also, is it legal where you are and is it worth going to jail for? Not many jobs would be worth risking that in my opinion. Being in jail would not be pleasant.

Twilightprincess wrote:
I’m not going to legitimize what “sex workers” do for a living because it’s too problematic and raises too many issues or potential issues. There’s no way to ensure safety which is the biggest problem.

Quote:
Yes there is. The best way to ensure safety, would be to empower the worker to call the police on an unruly client, or use up-to-lethal defensive force, without fear of being charged with a crime. Which is exactly what the rest of the population has. But you don't want us to have that. So do you really care about our safety?


I worry because you can’t usually report a crime until after one has been committed.

Twilightprincess wrote:
Since it’s apparently a legitimate “career path” or “profession,” I wonder if there’s a place where one can receive rigorous training - perhaps an AA, certification program, vocational program, or mentorship - to ensure “clients’” satisfaction and their continued business. :P
Quote:
Sure, why not? I bet I could teach you a thing or two :wink:


I’ll let you know if I have any questions. :P



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19 Dec 2019, 3:03 pm

MaxE wrote:

Quoting myself because I believe many didn't notice the presence of a link.


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