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[ MINI-RANT ] "Dear MAGA..."

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roronoa79
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03 Jun 2020, 4:47 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
If anything perhaps the police/military industrial complex. Did you know U.S police get training for Isreali military? Apparently there are even reports that some of the 'training' could be deigned to escalate situations rather than de-escalate them.

Scary stuff, because that means the tear gas and the rubber bullets aren't really a reaction to protests getting out of hand, its designed to create more stress and anger and create chaos so people are more likely to get confrontational. So like they may intentionally be trying to make the protests escalate into violence...so they can then respond with more brutality. And considering the err international concern about Israel and human rights violations perhaps its not a good thing for our police here to be getting training from their military.

Don't take my word for it though...look it up, BBC and Aljazeera English have some info in regards.


The more violent the crackdown, the more outrage. The more outrage, the more protests. The more protests, the more violent the crackdown. Protesters have become more determined by the crackdown, not less. And the police's and Trump's critics grow more numerous with each passing day as their response becomes more appalling. Lafayette Square did not do the president any favors.

It's like thinking that the best way to keep a pot of water from boiling is by pushing down harder on the lid.


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03 Jun 2020, 4:50 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Has anyone else seen the police attacking looters? I've only seen them beat the s**t out of protesters, probably because they like soft targets. Cowards!


I’ve seen protests spit on and throw stuff at cops then get gassed and pepper sprayed,

Once protesters violate laws and assault people they aren’t protesting.


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03 Jun 2020, 4:51 pm

Trump's election provides a cautionary tale of what happens when the population are unable distinguish between reality TV and real life.



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03 Jun 2020, 4:59 pm

sly279 wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Has anyone else seen the police attacking looters? I've only seen them beat the s**t out of protesters, probably because they like soft targets. Cowards!


I’ve seen protests spit on and throw stuff at cops then get gassed and pepper sprayed,

Once protesters violate laws and assault people they aren’t protesting.


Those aren't the incidents I'm talking about. I've seen so many clips of cops blatantly abusing people that it's sickening.

I'm sick of people saying it's a few bad apples. It's systemic violence and terror? Remember the movie Serpico? That was probably the first inside look into violent police culture. Frank Serpico wrote an article not too many years ago, saying it's far worse today then when he was undercover.


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03 Jun 2020, 5:00 pm

roronoa79 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
(Day Three)

Dear MAGA,

Have you made America great again yet?

Your lack of an answer shows that (1) you are too honest to lie, and (2) you are too embarrassed to tell the truth.

In either case, when are you going to start?

Sincerely,

Fnord


The answer so far appears to be, "No!  Of course not!  But it's the liberals' fault!!" ...
Throw in a few diversionary excuses like "Yeah, but ... Obama ..." or "What about Hillary?", along with flat-out denial of their Dear Leader's failures, and you have the MAGA crowd well-pegged.  To them, it is not their Dear Leader's fault, but the fault of anyone who doesn't worship the ground he slithers on.



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03 Jun 2020, 5:14 pm

roronoa79 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
If anything perhaps the police/military industrial complex. Did you know U.S police get training for Isreali military? Apparently there are even reports that some of the 'training' could be deigned to escalate situations rather than de-escalate them.

Scary stuff, because that means the tear gas and the rubber bullets aren't really a reaction to protests getting out of hand, its designed to create more stress and anger and create chaos so people are more likely to get confrontational. So like they may intentionally be trying to make the protests escalate into violence...so they can then respond with more brutality. And considering the err international concern about Israel and human rights violations perhaps its not a good thing for our police here to be getting training from their military.

Don't take my word for it though...look it up, BBC and Aljazeera English have some info in regards.


The more violent the crackdown, the more outrage. The more outrage, the more protests. The more protests, the more violent the crackdown. Protesters have become more determined by the crackdown, not less. And the police's and Trump's critics grow more numerous with each passing day as their response becomes more appalling. Lafayette Square did not do the president any favors.

It's like thinking that the best way to keep a pot of water from boiling is by pushing down harder on the lid.


Well...what better way is there to respond to folks protesting police brutality than with...more police brutality! :D

Makes sense to me!



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03 Jun 2020, 5:27 pm

Brictoria wrote:
Fnord wrote:
(Day Three)

Dear MAGA,

Have you made America great again yet?

Your lack of an answer shows that (1) you are too honest to lie, and (2) you are too embarrassed to tell the truth.

In either case, when are you going to start?

Sincerely,

Fnord


It's enlightening that you would wait until external events (and orchestrated internal events) have reversed what had occurred in the previous 3 years before asking...How about asking the same question, using December last year as the point in time to which you are referring?

Of course, using selective baselines to suit a given narative, some could claim that at least Obama finally managed to bring about the "hope and change" he had promised - in the 2016 electoral college results.


Exactly. During the first three years when things were easy Trump did okay. But as soon as he has to actually do his job, of being the nation's leader during a few months of actual crises, he screws up in a hundred ways, cant manage, and cant provide leadership, proving the he was never up to actually doing the job.

No argument there.

But I thought you were here to praise Trump. So why are you burying him instead?



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03 Jun 2020, 6:02 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
It's enlightening that you would wait until external events (and orchestrated internal events) have reversed what had occurred in the previous 3 years before asking...How about asking the same question, using December last year as the point in time to which you are referring? Of course, using selective baselines to suit a given narative, some could claim that at least Obama finally managed to bring about the "hope and change" he had promised - in the 2016 electoral college results.
Exactly. During the first three years when things were easy Trump did okay. But as soon as he has to actually do his job, of being the nation's leader during a few months of actual crises, he screws up in a hundred ways, cant manage, and cant provide leadership, proving the he was never up to actually doing the job. No argument there. But I thought you were here to praise Trump. So why are you burying him instead?[/quote]Because he stinks.



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03 Jun 2020, 7:07 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Fnord wrote:
(Day Three)

Dear MAGA,

Have you made America great again yet?

Your lack of an answer shows that (1) you are too honest to lie, and (2) you are too embarrassed to tell the truth.

In either case, when are you going to start?

Sincerely,

Fnord


It's enlightening that you would wait until external events (and orchestrated internal events) have reversed what had occurred in the previous 3 years before asking...How about asking the same question, using December last year as the point in time to which you are referring?

Of course, using selective baselines to suit a given narative, some could claim that at least Obama finally managed to bring about the "hope and change" he had promised - in the 2016 electoral college results.


Exactly. During the first three years when things were easy Trump did okay. But as soon as he has to actually do his job, of being the nation's leader during a few months of actual crises, he screws up in a hundred ways, cant manage, and cant provide leadership, proving the he was never up to actually doing the job.

No argument there.

But I thought you were here to praise Trump. So why are you burying him instead?


Strangely enough, the areas which have caused the reversal of the previous 3 years all appear to be in areas which are under state control, not federal.

The shut-down, which has reversed much of the gains is entirely under the control of the state governors, with, as far as I can see, those of a "Democratic" bent doing much worse that the "Republican" ones. When it looked like the Federal government was going to "force" the shut down to cease, it was the state governors who fought back saying this was under their control.

The riots and looting are a local and state responsibility, starting as protests against the local police and devolving. The responsibility to call in additional resources to stop these lies with the governors of the state, who are electing not to do so, whilst also complaining when they are told that the President will do this for them (Active rather than reserve troops) if they are unable to do their job.

I have found it enlightening that (as far as I have seen) the majority of the protests (and rioting) are occurring in Democrat controlled states/cities, indicating that it is these areas, and not Republican ones, where the racism must have been occurring. No sane person would destroy their community like that without a reason...



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03 Jun 2020, 7:24 pm

Brictoria wrote:
Strangely enough, the areas which have caused the reversal of the previous 3 years all appear to be in areas which are under state control, not federal.

The shut-down, which has reversed much of the gains is entirely under the control of the state governors, with, as far as I can see, those of a "Democratic" bent doing much worse that the "Republican" ones. When it looked like the Federal government was going to "force" the shut down to cease, it was the state governors who fought back saying this was under their control.


1. Trump's handling of the corona crisis is acknowledged to be "shite"

2. Most of the state governments choosing to delay shutdown are loony republicans

3. The :"gains" you seem so anxious to attribute to Trump was actually the flow on from 8 years of Obama's economic policies



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04 Jun 2020, 12:12 am

I'm not defending Trump.
I see him as a Chump. :mrgreen:
But I must point out that America's social problems were there well before Trump.

Quote:
• Meanwhile, American cities are burning as arsonists and looters demonstrating against the death of one man are met with rubber bullets, truncheons, and more tear gas.


The problem with adhering to a "Narrative" is that people look for anything which supports that storyline.
In essence, it utilises "Confirmation Bias",
And in this case, it is deceptive and disrespectful to the Truth. 8O

Quote:
Political narrative is a term used in the humanities and political sciences to describe the way in which storytelling can shape fact and impact on understandings of reality.


Quote:
Political narrative is impactful in its ability to elicit pathos, allowing the narrative to be influential through the value it provides rather than the truth that is told.[4]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_narrative



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04 Jun 2020, 12:22 am

Brictoria wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Fnord wrote:
(Day Three)

Dear MAGA,

Have you made America great again yet?

Your lack of an answer shows that (1) you are too honest to lie, and (2) you are too embarrassed to tell the truth.

In either case, when are you going to start?

Sincerely,

Fnord


It's enlightening that you would wait until external events (and orchestrated internal events) have reversed what had occurred in the previous 3 years before asking...How about asking the same question, using December last year as the point in time to which you are referring?

Of course, using selective baselines to suit a given narative, some could claim that at least Obama finally managed to bring about the "hope and change" he had promised - in the 2016 electoral college results.


Exactly. During the first three years when things were easy Trump did okay. But as soon as he has to actually do his job, of being the nation's leader during a few months of actual crises, he screws up in a hundred ways, cant manage, and cant provide leadership, proving the he was never up to actually doing the job.

No argument there.

But I thought you were here to praise Trump. So why are you burying him instead?


Strangely enough, the areas which have caused the reversal of the previous 3 years all appear to be in areas which are under state control, not federal.

The shut-down, which has reversed much of the gains is entirely under the control of the state governors, with, as far as I can see, those of a "Democratic" bent doing much worse that the "Republican" ones. When it looked like the Federal government was going to "force" the shut down to cease, it was the state governors who fought back saying this was under their control.

The riots and looting are a local and state responsibility, starting as protests against the local police and devolving. The responsibility to call in additional resources to stop these lies with the governors of the state, who are electing not to do so, whilst also complaining when they are told that the President will do this for them (Active rather than reserve troops) if they are unable to do their job.

I have found it enlightening that (as far as I have seen) the majority of the protests (and rioting) are occurring in Democrat controlled states/cities, indicating that it is these areas, and not Republican ones, where the racism must have been occurring. No sane person would destroy their community like that without a reason...


Let me get this straight. you're saying that Trump should have forced the states to open up early, thereby allowing the virus to spread and the curve to stay unflat so thousands more would have died, and the hospital system would have collapsed, and our economy would be even worse off than it is? You wanted the states to allow Trump to have the power to be even more incompetent than he actually was? And ergo because the state governors saved us from that fate ...they should be condemned?



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04 Jun 2020, 12:59 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Fnord wrote:
(Day Three)

Dear MAGA,

Have you made America great again yet?

Your lack of an answer shows that (1) you are too honest to lie, and (2) you are too embarrassed to tell the truth.

In either case, when are you going to start?

Sincerely,

Fnord


It's enlightening that you would wait until external events (and orchestrated internal events) have reversed what had occurred in the previous 3 years before asking...How about asking the same question, using December last year as the point in time to which you are referring?

Of course, using selective baselines to suit a given narative, some could claim that at least Obama finally managed to bring about the "hope and change" he had promised - in the 2016 electoral college results.


Exactly. During the first three years when things were easy Trump did okay. But as soon as he has to actually do his job, of being the nation's leader during a few months of actual crises, he screws up in a hundred ways, cant manage, and cant provide leadership, proving the he was never up to actually doing the job.

No argument there.

But I thought you were here to praise Trump. So why are you burying him instead?


Strangely enough, the areas which have caused the reversal of the previous 3 years all appear to be in areas which are under state control, not federal.

The shut-down, which has reversed much of the gains is entirely under the control of the state governors, with, as far as I can see, those of a "Democratic" bent doing much worse that the "Republican" ones. When it looked like the Federal government was going to "force" the shut down to cease, it was the state governors who fought back saying this was under their control.

The riots and looting are a local and state responsibility, starting as protests against the local police and devolving. The responsibility to call in additional resources to stop these lies with the governors of the state, who are electing not to do so, whilst also complaining when they are told that the President will do this for them (Active rather than reserve troops) if they are unable to do their job.

I have found it enlightening that (as far as I have seen) the majority of the protests (and rioting) are occurring in Democrat controlled states/cities, indicating that it is these areas, and not Republican ones, where the racism must have been occurring. No sane person would destroy their community like that without a reason...


Let me get this straight. you're saying that Trump should have forced the states to open up early, thereby allowing the virus to spread and the curve to stay unflat so thousands more would have died, and the hospital system would have collapsed, and our economy would be even worse off than it is? You wanted the states to allow Trump to have the power to be even more incompetent than he actually was? And ergo because the state governors saved us from that fate ...they should be condemned?


Nope...Just pointing out the hyprocracy of people claiming he's not showing leadership at a time when the issues are the responsibility of others.

Out of curiosity, I have noticed (thank you for reminding me) that at some point the shutdown changed from being done in order to "flatten the curve", with reopening to gradually occur once the curve was flattened into the shutdown continuing indefinately, and was wondering when this occurred? I will say, some of the state governors have done a great job (I understand Florida has a large percentage of population with the greatest risk from the disease, but a relatively low mortality rate compared to places with a "younger" population such as New York...Maybe New York should be emulating Florida's levels?)

It will be interesting, once this is "over", to see where the incompetence resides: The authoritarian approach of shutting people indoors for extended periods of time, causing businesses to be closed and people to lose thier jobs\livelihoods, or a more benevolent regime trusting the people to know what was best, with lesser degrees of restrictions applied, based on current disease levels rather than "worst case" guesses.

BTW, it is surprising, using your logic, how the economy did so well for 3 years when the only issues facing it were under his "incompetent" control, and how things fell apart after the issues fell under the responsibilities of the state governors.



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04 Jun 2020, 1:57 am

"Gentlemen, get the thing straight once and for all – the policeman isn't there to create disorder, the policeman is there to PRESERVE disorder!"



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04 Jun 2020, 6:18 am

roronoa79 wrote:
The answer so far appears to be "No! Of course not! But it's the liberals' fault!!"

Best summary in the thread.


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04 Jun 2020, 6:28 am

AuntBlabby’s quote was from Richard Daley, mayor of Chicago during the riots at the 1968 Chicago Democratic National Convention.