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Do you agree with bending your knee to show contrition?

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Magna
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08 Jun 2020, 12:14 pm

"White Privilege".

Is a person born with cerebral palsy or other congenital disease that confines them to a wheelchair and requires that they receive lifelong care a recipient of "white privilege" if they happen to be white?

Is a person born into extreme poverty and happens to have a low IQ through no fault of their own and were raised by drug addicted abusive parents and who dropped out of high school with no meaningful employment a recipient of "white privilege" if they happen to be white?

Is a person born with mental illness such as schizophrenia that limits their ability to function a recipient of "white privilege" if they happen to be white?

Is a person suffering from decades of extreme alcoholism to the point that they depend solely on public assistance for housing and food and are not employable in any way a recipient of "white privilege" if they happen to be white?

Is a homeless person who has lived "on the streets" for years and has been abused as such a recipient of "white privilege" if they happen to be white?

I want to know where the line is drawn since it's insulting to the people in the examples above to tell them they have privilege over people who may not be white but that are otherwise able bodied. Making an absolute blanket statement that literally every white person regardless of their condition is a recipient of "white privilege" over anyone else because of their white skin color/race is racist.

"Definition of racism
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race"

So I want to know where the line is drawn in regard to "white privilege". I want to know how a white person in any of the above examples is a recipient of "white privilege" in ways that benefit that person over, say an able-bodied black person who has a PhD.



Last edited by Magna on 08 Jun 2020, 12:32 pm, edited 4 times in total.

kraftiekortie
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08 Jun 2020, 12:17 pm

I am not apologizing for “being white.”

If the cops wanted to wash the feet of those people in the church, that’s their choice. I might do that, if asked. But I wouldn’t do it out of “white guilt.”

There are racists in every race, and tolerant people in every race.



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08 Jun 2020, 12:27 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
I don't believe there's anybody fitting that description in this thread. Your perception is vastly different from mine. I just see playing the race card at every turn as an overused tactic that lowers the level of the conversation, and pretty much creates an environment that stifles free exchange of ideas.

For the record, I am full support of those who take knee during the National Anthem.


Do you agree that the white people that took a knee in support for black people, who have been the victims of racism, were "apologizing for being white"?


Why would anyone do that? I can't think of anything more patently absurd.


I think that's one of those symbolic gestures entees are so big on. Logically speaking, you're not wrong. It accomplishes literally nothing and it can only possibly accomplish sending a small signal that one has let their attitudes change, which of course isn't the same as actually changing one's attitudes.


By and large, I agree. I'm not really much into symbolism, myself. I'm more interested in bridging the gap between races with intelligent discourse and actions.


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08 Jun 2020, 12:28 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
Sure racist has became a word treated like it is just the dirtiest word, and thus accusing someone of having some racist beliefs is as equal a calling them a rapist, but being a racist is actually pretty common..

If you are branded with the modern day scarlet letter “racist” you risk being shutdown or cancelled in any number of ways. In the current atmosphere being accused of being racist is on par if not worse then being a rapist so why if you are accused of being a racist would you not freak out?

Who is a racist? Increasingly it is a person who holds a few prejudicial opinions, who said something decades ago now considered racist but then considered ethnic humor. If you say “All lives matter” a lot of people will automatically assume you are a racist.

You are correct in pointing out most people have their biases, their dated opinions, their prejudices, their fear of differences. So if you define most people as racist that makes for an endless stream of targets. If you define most people as racist that opens the door to justify any change you want to fix the evil to the core system which was the whole point in expanding the definition of racism in the first place. I have to admit this tactic has been a lot more successful then I could have imagined so I have to give props to people pushing this, they have been executing their strategy really well, the opposition is extremely confused and on the defensive at the moment. The way they have used the Floyd murder, just brilliant. That makes this more frightening not less.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 08 Jun 2020, 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

magz
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08 Jun 2020, 12:34 pm

I don't feel any guilt for being European.
I do feel solidarity with people who struggle.
I think it is very important that "whites" show up on BLM - it's a message that this is not a black-white tribe war this time. It makes it really anti-racism, both directions.
I think I would bend my knee as a gesture of solidarity. I want all people in the world to have my "priviledge" of normal life.


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08 Jun 2020, 12:37 pm

magz wrote:
I don't feel any guilt for being European.
I do feel solidarity with people who struggle.
I think it is very important that "whites" show up on BLM - it's a message that this is not a black-white tribe war this time. It makes it really anti-racism, both directions.
I think I would bend my knee as a gesture of solidarity. I want all people in the world to have my "priviledge" of normal life.


Well said!


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Bradleigh
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08 Jun 2020, 12:40 pm

Magna wrote:
"White Privilege".


White privilege is not like you get a card that gives you a free sandwich because of the colour of your skin, it is that you don't get the type of harassment and disadvantage you would have gotten if you were not white. It is ridiculous that people keep interpreting it like calling that there is a thing like white privilege means that all white people must now pay a tax to non-white people.

White privilege would be like getting elected president and not getting some conspiracy from a nut job claiming that you were born in Kenya. White privilege is something you would not even notice you had until a black lady tells you she was once confronted by a police officer as a threat for skipping down the street until they saw you had a white person with you.

Sure, white privilege is not the only type of privilege that exists. You can able bodied privilege, rich privilege, male privilege, NT privilege, straight privilege and intelligence privilege. But it is white privilege that have made people blind to the deep problems in police brutality.


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08 Jun 2020, 12:41 pm

Magna wrote:
"White Privilege".

Is a person born with cerebral palsy or other congenital disease that confines them to a wheelchair and requires that they receive lifelong care a recipient of "white privilege" if they happen to be white?

Is a person born into extreme poverty and happens to have a low IQ through no fault of their own and were raised by drug addicted abusive parents and who dropped out of high school with no meaningful employment a recipient of "white privilege" if they happen to be white?

Is a person born with mental illness such as schizophrenia that limits their ability to function a recipient of "white privilege" if they happen to be white?

Is a person suffering from decades of extreme alcoholism to the point that they depend solely on public assistance for housing and food and are not employable in any way a recipient of "white privilege" if they happen to be white?

Is a homeless person who has lived "on the streets" for years and has been abused as such a recipient of "white privilege" if they happen to be white?

I want to know where the line is drawn since it's insulting to the people in the examples above to tell them they have privilege over people who may not be white but that are otherwise able bodied. Making an absolute blanket statement that literally every white person regardless of their condition is a recipient of "white privilege" over anyone else because of their white skin color/race is racist.

"Definition of racism
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race"

So I want to know where the line is drawn in regard to "white privilege". I want to know how a white person in any of the above examples is a recipient of "white privilege" in ways that benefit that person over, say an able-bodied black person who has a PhD.


Perhaps we should change the term to "social economic" privilege.


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funeralxempire
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08 Jun 2020, 12:55 pm

Magna wrote:
"White Privilege".

Is a person born with cerebral palsy or other congenital disease that confines them to a wheelchair and requires that they receive lifelong care a recipient of "white privilege" if they happen to be white?

Is a person born into extreme poverty and happens to have a low IQ through no fault of their own and were raised by drug addicted abusive parents and who dropped out of high school with no meaningful employment a recipient of "white privilege" if they happen to be white?

Is a person born with mental illness such as schizophrenia that limits their ability to function a recipient of "white privilege" if they happen to be white?

Is a person suffering from decades of extreme alcoholism to the point that they depend solely on public assistance for housing and food and are not employable in any way a recipient of "white privilege" if they happen to be white?

Is a homeless person who has lived "on the streets" for years and has been abused as such a recipient of "white privilege" if they happen to be white?

I want to know where the line is drawn since it's insulting to the people in the examples above to tell them they have privilege over people who may not be white but that are otherwise able bodied. Making an absolute blanket statement that literally every white person regardless of their condition is a recipient of "white privilege" over anyone else because of their white skin color/race is racist.

"Definition of racism
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race"

So I want to know where the line is drawn in regard to "white privilege". I want to know how a white person in any of the above examples is a recipient of "white privilege" in ways that benefit that person over, say an able-bodied black person who has a PhD.


Yes, if you're white or pass as white, you've benefited from white privilege, even if you've been hindered by all of the above. Benefiting from white privilege doesn't mean you won't have other s**t to deal with, just that you've likely been spared dealing with the s**t that white people typically aren't subjected to.


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08 Jun 2020, 12:56 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
Sure racist has became a word treated like it is just the dirtiest word, and thus accusing someone of having some racist beliefs is as equal a calling them a rapist, but being a racist is actually pretty common..

If you are branded with the modern day scarlet letter “racist” you risk being shutdown or cancelled in any number of ways. In the current atmosphere being accused of being racist is on par if not worse then being a rapist so why if you are accused of being a racist would you not freak out?

Who is a racist? Increasingly it is a person who holds a few prejudicial opinions, who said something decades ago now considered racist but then considered ethnic humor. If you say “All lives matter” a lot of people will automatically assume you are a racist.

You are correct in pointing out most people have their biases, their dated opinions, their prejudices, their fear of differences. So if you define most people as racist that makes for an endless stream of targets. If you define most people as racist that opens the door to justify any change you want to fix the evil to the core system which was the whole point in expanding the definition of racism in the first place. I have to admit this tactic has been a lot more successful then I could have imagined so I have to give props to people pushing this, they have been executing their strategy really well, the opposition is extremely confused and on the defensive at the moment. The way they have used the Floyd murder, just brilliant. That makes this more frightening not less.


I made this point last year in a thread far, far away, but it bears repeating. The big problem with the "cancel culture" is that what you do or say is attacked totally out of context. A prime example was the furor that arose from a comment Liam Neeson made a couple of years ago. He was recalling a toxic emotion he had as a young man after his brother was murdered by a black man. He said he was so full of rage, he went looking for black man to exact his revenge. Obviously, that's a very toxic place to be.

What could have been a great catalyst for discussion that might help ease tensions and create a better environment for us all, was tossed away in favor of condemning him for it, and tossing him away. I actually think it was highly courageous of him to share that story.


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Bradleigh
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08 Jun 2020, 12:57 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Perhaps we should change the term to "social economic" privilege.


And that would be made up of various types of privileges such as the ones I mentioned above.

You don't just compare Tom Cruise to George Floyd and say that Tom Cruise has Tom Cruise privilege. You break up and analyze many different factors of why some people have things better or worse than others. And there are glaring statistics that show how people have a harder time for simply not being white.


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08 Jun 2020, 12:58 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Magna wrote:
"White Privilege".

Is a person born with cerebral palsy or other congenital disease that confines them to a wheelchair and requires that they receive lifelong care a recipient of "white privilege" if they happen to be white?

Is a person born into extreme poverty and happens to have a low IQ through no fault of their own and were raised by drug addicted abusive parents and who dropped out of high school with no meaningful employment a recipient of "white privilege" if they happen to be white?

Is a person born with mental illness such as schizophrenia that limits their ability to function a recipient of "white privilege" if they happen to be white?

Is a person suffering from decades of extreme alcoholism to the point that they depend solely on public assistance for housing and food and are not employable in any way a recipient of "white privilege" if they happen to be white?

Is a homeless person who has lived "on the streets" for years and has been abused as such a recipient of "white privilege" if they happen to be white?

I want to know where the line is drawn since it's insulting to the people in the examples above to tell them they have privilege over people who may not be white but that are otherwise able bodied. Making an absolute blanket statement that literally every white person regardless of their condition is a recipient of "white privilege" over anyone else because of their white skin color/race is racist.

"Definition of racism
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race"

So I want to know where the line is drawn in regard to "white privilege". I want to know how a white person in any of the above examples is a recipient of "white privilege" in ways that benefit that person over, say an able-bodied black person who has a PhD.


Perhaps we should change the term to "social economic" privilege.


Except that would be a different thing. Sean Combs kids benefit from that, my dad's kids benefit from white privilege even if we're metis. Sean Combs kids still might potentially get harassed by a racist cop who thinks they won't be able to fight back legally, but they'll have the resources to do so. If I get harassed by a cop who hates dishevelled mentally ill people I won't be much better off than who he's mistaken me for since I still lack resources.


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08 Jun 2020, 12:59 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
Sure racist has became a word treated like it is just the dirtiest word, and thus accusing someone of having some racist beliefs is as equal a calling them a rapist, but being a racist is actually pretty common..

If you are branded with the modern day scarlet letter “racist” you risk being shutdown or cancelled in any number of ways. In the current atmosphere being accused of being racist is on par if not worse then being a rapist so why if you are accused of being a racist would you not freak out?

Who is a racist? Increasingly it is a person who holds a few prejudicial opinions, who said something decades ago now considered racist but then considered ethnic humor. If you say “All lives matter” a lot of people will automatically assume you are a racist.

You are correct in pointing out most people have their biases, their dated opinions, their prejudices, their fear of differences. So if you define most people as racist that makes for an endless stream of targets. If you define most people as racist that opens the door to justify any change you want to fix the evil to the core system which was the whole point in expanding the definition of racism in the first place. I have to admit this tactic has been a lot more successful then I could have imagined so I have to give props to people pushing this, they have been executing their strategy really well, the opposition is extremely confused and on the defensive at the moment. The way they have used the Floyd murder, just brilliant. That makes this more frightening not less.


I made this point last year in a thread far, far away, but it bears repeating. The big problem with the "cancel culture" is that what you do or say is attacked totally out of context. A prime example was the furor that arose from a comment Liam Neeson made a couple of years ago. He was recalling a toxic emotion he had as a young man after his brother was murdered by a black man. He said he was so full of rage, he went looking for black man to exact his revenge. Obviously, that's a very toxic place to be.

What could have been a great catalyst for discussion that might help ease tensions and create a better environment for us all, was tossed away in favor of condemning him for it, and tossing him away. I actually think it was highly courageous of him to share that story.


Part of the problem is that many people on both sides of this issue treat being labelled as racist as though it's a binary thing. Not all racism is equally toxic. Obviously chasing a jogger down and shooting him to death is worse than having used an ethnic slur in 6th grade.


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08 Jun 2020, 1:05 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
I don't believe there's anybody fitting that description in this thread. Your perception is vastly different from mine. I just see playing the race card at every turn as an overused tactic that lowers the level of the conversation, and pretty much creates an environment that stifles free exchange of ideas.

This is why I typically avoid these kinds of threads - too many people trying to pound any sized/shaped peg into a square hole.


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08 Jun 2020, 1:07 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Perhaps we should change the term to "social economic" privilege.


And that would be made up of various types of privileges such as the ones I mentioned above.

You don't just compare Tom Cruise to George Floyd and say that Tom Cruise has Tom Cruise privilege. You break up and analyze many different factors of why some people have things better or worse than others. And there are glaring statistics that show how people have a harder time for simply not being white.
Well Bradleigh
as much as I respect your opinions,I think this whole "white privilege" incantation going around society is just an attempt by white people to get in touch with some higher plain of consciousness and feel superior to other people.Which would include blacks and other minorities :idea:


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08 Jun 2020, 1:09 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Perhaps we should change the term to "social economic" privilege.


And that would be made up of various types of privileges such as the ones I mentioned above.

You don't just compare Tom Cruise to George Floyd and say that Tom Cruise has Tom Cruise privilege. You break up and analyze many different factors of why some people have things better or worse than others. And there are glaring statistics that show how people have a harder time for simply not being white.
Well Bradleigh
as much as I respect your opinions,I think this whole "white privilege" incantation going around society is just an attempt by white people to get in touch with some higher plain of consciousness and feel superior to other people.Which would include blacks and other minorities :idea:


So what exactly is the problem with pointing out that there's a number of issues and experiences within society that white and whiteish people are unlikely to be subjected, and if they are, it's certain that they're not racially motivated?

I feel like most critics of the idea interpret it as something bigger than it really is.


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.