Which Part Of The US Should Be Granted Statehood?

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Which Part Of The US Should Be Granted Statehood?
Puerto Rico 29%  29%  [ 2 ]
Guam 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Federated States Of Micronesia 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
American Samoa 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Northern Mariana Islands 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
US Virgin Islands 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Any Of Them 43%  43%  [ 3 ]
Something Else Entirely 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
I Think A Partition Should Happen 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
None Of The Above, It Will Likely Never Happen 29%  29%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 7

roronoa79
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29 Jun 2020, 3:53 pm

Turnout has been the main issue with most of the PR referendums from what I've heard. A big part of this is that the leaders of the status quo camp usually tell their supporters to not take part in the referendums. Turnout probably isn't helped either since they're usually non-binding. Or people feel like statehood or independence wouldn't be solutions to the problems PR faces.


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MaxE
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30 Jun 2020, 6:47 am

roronoa79 wrote:
...The Founders intentionally made the constitution relatively easy to amend because they did not want to burden future generations with an unchangeable constitution that might not be able to address unforeseen issues. We only have the Bill of Rights because we agreed that the Constitution needed serious changes from the get go. There is also legal precedent for repealing one amendment with a new amendment. Is that suddenly unconstitutional?

I just wanted to say a couple of things. I believe I stated previously that I believed the time has come to consider replacing the constitution, IOW calling a Constitutional Convention. I don't understand why anyone would assume this would lead to some sort of Bolshevik society. My preference would be for some sort of confederation like Switzerland, but that is probably a minority opinion.

However, anybody who worships the constitution should bear in mind that the US has become, in the minds of many world wide, the least democratic and least admired country among the "western democracies" and this should serve as a warning that something is wrong. Clearly our constitution is no longer working and something has to change.


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ASPartOfMe
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30 Jun 2020, 7:19 pm

MaxE wrote:
roronoa79 wrote:
...The Founders intentionally made the constitution relatively easy to amend because they did not want to burden future generations with an unchangeable constitution that might not be able to address unforeseen issues. We only have the Bill of Rights because we agreed that the Constitution needed serious changes from the get go. There is also legal precedent for repealing one amendment with a new amendment. Is that suddenly unconstitutional?

I just wanted to say a couple of things. I believe I stated previously that I believed the time has come to consider replacing the constitution, IOW calling a Constitutional Convention. I don't understand why anyone would assume this would lead to some sort of Bolshevik society. My preference would be for some sort of confederation like Switzerland, but that is probably a minority opinion.

However, anybody who worships the constitution should bear in mind that the US has become, in the minds of many world wide, the least democratic and least admired country among the "western democracies" and this should serve as a warning that something is wrong. Clearly our constitution is no longer working and something has to change.


So you think it is a flawed constitution leading to a troubled populace. I think it is the other way around.


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funeralxempire
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30 Jun 2020, 7:26 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
So you think it is a flawed constitution leading to a troubled populace. I think it is the other way around.


Does it have to be one or the other, can't it be both? The flawed constitution reflects a flawed populace, but it also serves to bind them to the mistakes of their ancestors leading to additional problems that might otherwise be more easily resolved.


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roronoa79
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30 Jun 2020, 10:30 pm

MaxE wrote:
roronoa79 wrote:
...The Founders intentionally made the constitution relatively easy to amend because they did not want to burden future generations with an unchangeable constitution that might not be able to address unforeseen issues. We only have the Bill of Rights because we agreed that the Constitution needed serious changes from the get go. There is also legal precedent for repealing one amendment with a new amendment. Is that suddenly unconstitutional?

I just wanted to say a couple of things. I believe I stated previously that I believed the time has come to consider replacing the constitution, IOW calling a Constitutional Convention. I don't understand why anyone would assume this would lead to some sort of Bolshevik society. My preference would be for some sort of confederation like Switzerland, but that is probably a minority opinion.

However, anybody who worships the constitution should bear in mind that the US has become, in the minds of many world wide, the least democratic and least admired country among the "western democracies" and this should serve as a warning that something is wrong. Clearly our constitution is no longer working and something has to change.


I mostly agree. I'm sorry if it came off the other way, I was just trying to "talk more conservative" (?) if that makes sense. (Phrasing and forming an argument based on what they already might believe)
I find it very hard to believe that it would be possible to get all the states to agree to attend a new constitutional convention, let alone ratifying a new one. There would need to be some *serious* circumstances for everybody to get on board with questioning the current constitution like they did with the Articles of Confederation. There would need to be both de jure and de facto will to do that and I don't see that happening any time soon.
The most likely way we would get a new constitution without each state being on board would probably involve bloodshed, secession of however many states, or both. Bc it would need to be group A of states imposing their will on group B of states.
It pains me to say that it's easier to get 3/4 states on board with amendments than 4/4 states on board with an entirely new constitution.


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Δυνατὰ δὲ οἱ προύχοντες πράσσουσι καὶ οἱ ἀσθενεῖς ξυγχωροῦσιν.
Those with power do what their power permits, and the weak can only acquiesce.

- Thucydides

Conservatism discourages thought, discussion, consensus, empathy, and hope.