Race, culture and concepts of ethnicity
For a number of reasons parts of the US had more women of European descent available and therefore had fewer mixed people, even when that society was attached to a more typical colonial society (like the US north and south) this laid the groundwork for ethnic background to dominate the concept of race, whereas in Latin America race and class identities tended to merge a bit more. Among things, this meant that poor whites had no reason to try to preserve their kids 'whiteness', rich 'whites' could be not entirely white and still count and that it would be much harder to establish 'white only' parts of society. Even in practice, white supremacists in Latin America are more likely to care about 'whitening' society than 'segregating'.
In a lot of colonial societies white men were expected to 'assimilate' their families into white society and when they chose not to they were ostracized and treated with the same racist contempt as their brothers-in-law.
That gave me another thought: it's all about post-colonial societes - mainly Americas and Australia, also South Africa, I think - where, for various reasons, indigenous population was sparse at the time of colonisation.
East Asia, as a counter-example, developed quite different attitudes, often including isolationism. India has so many strong internal divisions that Europeans are... just another group in its already complicated society.
I'm trying to kind of relate all the hot topics to my experience and see where the culture and history close to me fit within the bigger picture. I feel quite off-center, it's often hard to relate some Western concepts to East European realities. I think the West, USA in particular, is often guilty of attributing universality to their culture and issues.
Yes. The US parades it's dirty linen across the globe because we dominate media and pop culture of the globe. So our issues become everyone's issues. Whether others can relate or not. Lol!
funeralxempire
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For what it's worth my knowledge of the relations between the Yugoslavian ethnic groups based on reading is in complete odds to my experience seeing groups of ethnically mixed Yugoslavian immigrants in Mimico and KW.
Apparently once they're outside of the lands they've been fighting over for over a thousand years they get along fine. To be fair many of them also described parents who were nostalgic for Yugoslavia's existence and weren't outspoken nationalists.
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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.
funeralxempire
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There's lots of costs that come with hegemony.
_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.
That may, by the way, explain another phenomenon - a difference on how people react to correcting their language between Polish and English fora. But that's another topic.
This tendency makes Slavic nations ready to assimilate any minority willing to assimilate - including e.g. Bulgars being Turkish by ancestry but Slavic by language and culture. In central Europe, people tend to be descendants of those who lived here for millenia mixed with all the waves of immigration that happened since ancient times.
It was a bit strange to me that, according to Wikipedia, only 3% of North America identify as multiracial - compared to, e.g. over 40% of Brazil citizens, another big country with a history of black slavery, where some regions have over 80% of mixed-race inhabitants.
For some reason, Africans and Europeans did mix in Brazil but not in the US.
One possible explanation I could think of: As Slavs tend to pay the most attention to one's language, the Spanish and Portuguese tend to pay more attention to one's religion than ancestry. That helped the infamous Spanish Inquisition emerge but it also resulted in ex-slaves and indigenous Americans becoming marriageable after accepting Catholicism.
That were my thougths on the topic... how do you see it?
Poles and Russians don't love each other too, despite both being Slavs - I never claimed using any language from Slavic family makes us one big family, just a tradition of identifying ethnicity with language.
Balkans are complicated in general but their muslim population there uses a non-slavic Albanian. When it comes to Serbs and Croats, I look at Wikipedia:
Apparently, the language issue was present in this story - both to claim unity to call Croats "catholic Serbs" and to claim distinction by Croats who viewed themselves as a separate nation.
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Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>
For what it's worth, you might want to look up the concepts of Anglo-Indian vs. Eurasian in Indian culture. Both have mixed heritage, but one is considered more 'westernized' than the other.
Often our deaths as a result of these epidemics are treated as justification for stealing our homelands but since when did your neighbour not using his basement entitle you to move a dozen relatives into his house? How long do I need to possess your car before it becomes my car? They're little more than terrible excuses for terrible injustices.
I definitely won't use it as any kind of justification, just as a part of dynamics leading to colonial states ethnically dominated by the newcomers and then further development of culture in such a place.
_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>
That may, by the way, explain another phenomenon - a difference on how people react to correcting their language between Polish and English fora. But that's another topic.
This tendency makes Slavic nations ready to assimilate any minority willing to assimilate - including e.g. Bulgars being Turkish by ancestry but Slavic by language and culture. In central Europe, people tend to be descendants of those who lived here for millenia mixed with all the waves of immigration that happened since ancient times.
It was a bit strange to me that, according to Wikipedia, only 3% of North America identify as multiracial - compared to, e.g. over 40% of Brazil citizens, another big country with a history of black slavery, where some regions have over 80% of mixed-race inhabitants.
For some reason, Africans and Europeans did mix in Brazil but not in the US.
One possible explanation I could think of: As Slavs tend to pay the most attention to one's language, the Spanish and Portuguese tend to pay more attention to one's religion than ancestry. That helped the infamous Spanish Inquisition emerge but it also resulted in ex-slaves and indigenous Americans becoming marriageable after accepting Catholicism.
That were my thougths on the topic... how do you see it?
Poles and Russians don't love each other too, despite both being Slavs - I never claimed using any language from Slavic family makes us one big family, just a tradition of identifying ethnicity with language.
Balkans are complicated in general but their muslim population there uses a non-slavic Albanian. When it comes to Serbs and Croats, I look at Wikipedia:
Apparently, the language issue was present in this story - both to claim unity to call Croats "catholic Serbs" and to claim distinction by Croats who viewed themselves as a separate nation.
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funeralxempire
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For what it's worth, you might want to look up the concepts of Anglo-Indian vs. Eurasian in Indian culture. Both have mixed heritage, but one is considered more 'westernized' than the other.
Historically Eurasian implied a white mother and Indian father, while Anglo-Indian was reserved for those with an English/Scottish/Irish father and an Indian mother. It was assumed that Anglo-Indians would be more sympathetic to Imperial interests and they tended to receive favourable treatment in various contexts.
That's interesting, there's a general trend that emerges the more I read about colonialism in different regions, which is that most people just want to get along and live their lives (even among peoples with documented histories of long-standing, severe ethnic biases). Most people need some sort of stressor before that dynamic starts to break down.
Often our deaths as a result of these epidemics are treated as justification for stealing our homelands but since when did your neighbour not using his basement entitle you to move a dozen relatives into his house? How long do I need to possess your car before it becomes my car? They're little more than terrible excuses for terrible injustices.
I definitely won't use it as any kind of justification, just as a part of dynamics leading to colonial states ethnically dominated by the newcomers and then further development of culture in such a place.
My apologies, I didn't mean to say that you're personally accepting that as 'just part of how things go', more that that's the standard 'politically correct' way that issue is framed when history is taught here. Indigenous history (and black history) get minimized to avoid all of the inconvenient issues that would be raised alongside those perspectives. To be fair, our perspectives tend to be overlooked as inconvenient, offensive and radical. It's still pretty radical for white liberals to say they want to hear our perspectives and then actually mean it.
_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.
CockneyRebel
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East Asia, as a counter-example, developed quite different attitudes, often including isolationism. India has so many strong internal divisions that Europeans are... just another group in its already complicated society.
Australia is becoming more culturally fractured, these days.
As I mentioned earlier, migrants tended to have a desire to assimilate into the Australian culture, just after WWII, with their descendants embracing the Australian way of life.
I am one such example.
These days, many immigrants seem to have an attitude of entitlement, rather than accepting it is a "Privilege" in being part of Australian society.
I use the analogy:
You invite someone in to share your house.
They then barricade the entrance to their room,
And declare it to be "Chop", or "Chaz".
Immigration is not the problem here.
It is the immigration of an unhealthy attitude, that can come with immigration, which is the social destabilising factor.
funeralxempire
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You invite someone in to share your house.
They then barricade the entrance to their room,
And declare it to be "Chop", or "Chaz".
Is CHOP or CHAZ majority recent immigrants, or majority people who have been US citizens for generations?
_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.
Bradleigh
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As I mentioned earlier, migrants tended to have a desire to assimilate into the Australian culture, just after WWII, with their descendants embracing the Australian way of life.
I am one such example.
These days, many immigrants seem to have an attitude of entitlement, rather than accepting it is a "Privilege" in being part of Australian society.
I use the analogy:
You invite someone in to share your house.
They then barricade the entrance to their room,
And declare it to be "Chop", or "Chaz".
Immigration is not the problem here.
It is the immigration of an unhealthy attitude, that can come with immigration, which is the social destabilising factor.
I think that you would have found the native born Australians made the exact same sort of complaints against migrants then as they do now. Complaining that they were not assimilating in how the "real Australians" should act, with their cultural foods, funny accents and attitudes like they own the place. Not to mention things like the White Australian policy.
But those people look ridiculous now, Australia as a whole changed. You saw new cultural creations that were mixes of blending the old ones together and a new harmony. Those who refuse to accept cultural diversity because all Australians need to go to barbies and have a very specific way of socialising just create a larger cultural divide that will actually make things worse. If you want to see them all blend, be open and not treat Asians or Muslims as like they are something gawk at and yell at them to go back to where they came from.
I am sure that you appreciate that, Pepe.
_________________
Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall
Often our deaths as a result of these epidemics are treated as justification for stealing our homelands but since when did your neighbour not using his basement entitle you to move a dozen relatives into his house? How long do I need to possess your car before it becomes my car? They're little more than terrible excuses for terrible injustices.
Are you and Amerindian? I'm not a radical liberal but I'm totally willing to listen!
In 19th century Polish literature, sufferings of Indigenous Americans were often used as a camouflaged allegory of sufferings of Poles, to trick censorship. That probably made us traditionally more sympathetic towards the First Nations, which is continuously present in our popular literature - including authors like Cejrowski, a hardcore right-winger, writing about his encounters with Amazonian tribes, sympathising with them and defending their point of view.
From what I learned reading Wikipedia, colonization of North America included several crimes against humanity and plenty of more subtle assholeness - like Canadian indigenous laws that one loses for... finishing a high school - which is practically preventing constructive synthesis of Amerindian culture and modern civilisation!
_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>
You invite someone in to share your house.
They then barricade the entrance to their room,
And declare it to be "Chop", or "Chaz".
Is CHOP or CHAZ majority recent immigrants, or majority people who have been US citizens for generations?
What?
I am assuming you are being argumentative.
Not interested ,
Thanks very much.
And I like discussions,
Rather than arguments/debates.
I prefer mutual growth.
What is wrong with you lefties?
As I mentioned earlier, migrants tended to have a desire to assimilate into the Australian culture, just after WWII, with their descendants embracing the Australian way of life.
I am one such example.
These days, many immigrants seem to have an attitude of entitlement, rather than accepting it is a "Privilege" in being part of Australian society.
I use the analogy:
You invite someone in to share your house.
They then barricade the entrance to their room,
And declare it to be "Chop", or "Chaz".
Immigration is not the problem here.
It is the immigration of an unhealthy attitude, that can come with immigration, which is the social destabilising factor.
I think that you would have found the native born Australians made the exact same sort of complaints against migrants then as they do now. Complaining that they were not assimilating in how the "real Australians" should act, with their cultural foods, funny accents and attitudes like they own the place. Not to mention things like the White Australian policy.
But those people look ridiculous now, Australia as a whole changed. You saw new cultural creations that were mixes of blending the old ones together and a new harmony. Those who refuse to accept cultural diversity because all Australians need to go to barbies and have a very specific way of socialising just create a larger cultural divide that will actually make things worse. If you want to see them all blend, be open and not treat Asians or Muslims as like they are something gawk at and yell at them to go back to where they came from.
I am sure that you appreciate that, Pepe.
See my previous post.

" when referring to "The Naked Ape".